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Honest question: what is your ideas for a solution in Palestine/Israel (hexbear.net)

submitted 7 months ago by metaltoilet@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

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First off, I’m truly asking this in good faith, please be nice but correct me too on anything I saw that’s stupid.

As an anarchism, my ideal solution for Palestine is a no-state solution where people are allowed to move freely, interact freely, and work being done on both sides to heal from the decades of conflict and live in one society.

Now you folks (I love you folks) aren’t all anarchists and I’d love to hear your thoughts. Sometimes I’ll see people saying that all Israelis should just move somewhere else, but I think that’s really dumb. Both sides seem to be operating on the assumption that the other group will leave, which in my opinion is just as racist thinking as saying all the Palestinians should just leave.

So what are the tankie’s (/j) thoughts.

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[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 18 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

Sometimes I’ll see people saying that all Israelis should just move somewhere else, but I think that’s really dumb. Both sides seem to be operating on the assumption that the other group will leave, which in my opinion is just as racist thinking as saying all the Palestinians should just leave.

Yeah, when they, {the settlers} lose their economic and political privileges of apartheid and settler colonialism, I'm pretty sure a lot of them would just leave (see Algeria's Pied Noir, Zimbabwe and South Africa's white elites, Angola and Mozambique's retornados), though most of them to note are probably European or 'White' American descended (East or West European).

As for the remaining Jews, which are likely Sephardic and Middle Eastern (Mizrahi means 'Oriental'), let them be... they once lived peacefully with their neighbors (as a more indigenous people there), and they should be for many decades to come...

We can benefit them as well, since they're more likely to disenfranchised, if not in the same predicament as Palestinians...

[–] metaltoilet@hexbear.net 8 points 7 months ago

Yeah, when they, {the settlers} lose their economic and political privileges of apartheid and settler colonialism, I'm pretty sure a lot of them would just leave

You’re totally right, I didn’t even think of this despite just reading about Algeria the other day.

[–] SteamedHamberder@hexbear.net 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Careful, you’re about to whip out the calipers for Israelis.

You’ve established a separate set of rules for White/ non white Israelis, and smacks of racial determinism. This ignores the prevalence of Mizrachim among the most vocal right wing factions. (A corelary in the U.S. would be reactionary politics among 2nd generation central and South Americans.)

[–] Lemmygradwontallowme@hexbear.net 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

You’ve established a separate set of rules for White/ non white Israelis, and smacks of racial determinism.

Jaysus wept, I apologize if my statement looks like that.... I did not mean to communicate like that... I guess I confused race and class dynamics, especially in settler-capitalist setting...

This ignores the prevalence of Mizrachim among the most vocal right wing factions. (A corelary in the U.S. would be reactionary politics among 2nd generation central and South Americans.)

Likewise with Black American collaborators who want to go with their white settler-capitalist counterparts, if a few Mizrachim want to flee right back to their settler-colonial mother's skirts, fine, they do be so...

But lemme tell you this, wasn't AfD's stronghold to be annexed areas of former East Germany?

Political waves change and so do too with Mizrahim political involvement... Do you wanna know why some of them are rightists?

Mizrahim political history

It’s impossible to understand Israel’s lurch to the right and the rise of the hawkish Likud party without understanding the trajectory of the Mizrahim. So, what happened?

For starters, the experience of being kicked out of Arab countries post-1948 naturally soured many Jews’ feelings toward the Arab world. Plus, from the moment they arrived in Israel, the experience of discrimination taught Mizrahim that gaining social status was contingent on rejecting Arabness.

But there was another factor at play. For the first three decades of Israel’s existence, it was ruled by the Labor Party, which was rooted in both socialism and Ashkenazi Zionism. In practice, that meant building up leftist institutions like the kibbutz — a kind of utopian agricultural commune that stretches back to Zionism’s early days — even while pushing Palestinians off their land and discriminating against Mizrahim (who were more likely to be hired as cheap laborers on a kibbutz than to gain membership in it).

Meanwhile, the Israeli right, which favored an even more hardline approach toward the Palestinians, strategically used the left’s discrimination against Mizrahim to its own advantage. From the 1950s to the 1970s, it invested in courting Mizrahim by promising them concrete benefits and upward mobility.

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/24122304/israel-hamas-war-gaza-palestine-arab-jews-mizrahi-solidarity

tl;dr of the trajectory: When there is no other viable and living anti-imperialist, progressive, socialist alternatives to court the marginalized lumpenprole, more aptly, the Mizrahim, the cold-hearted western unequal-exchange socdems, or the more reactionary fascists instead became their main political choices, when they find their base in them...

Generally speaking, there are also right wingers in Black American voters, yet you likely won't tell me to stop finding solidarity between them and Native Americans....