this post was submitted on 13 Jun 2024
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submitted 5 months ago by BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world to c/memes@lemmy.world
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[–] squid_slime@lemm.ee 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (1 children)

well i say if we can go from feudalism to mercantilism to capitalism then why not capitalism to socialism to communism? its again distributing power from the top to the lower status classes, we saw similar in feudalism to mercantilism.

Wealth distribution is not equal under communism. Most is owned by the state, the privileged class still exists. The underprivileged class also exists.

  • wealth distribution should be equal under communism, wealth not being equal means we must do better. we don't look at corrupt corporations and think "to bad its fucked best not make any more"
  • under socialism most would be owned and redistributed by the state. communism is worker lead and not state lead at least in my school of socialism.
  • under socialism the unprivileged class gets lifted through the transitional period. class distinctions are to be removed through the transitional period leading to a classless communist society.

Communism tends to be inefficient and less productive than capitalism, so a lot less is produced. This is demonstrated time and again. People just don’t have a personal motivation to increases production for the state. Distribution is also inefficient. Historically it leads to hunger because central planning is less effective than a decentralized system where individuals are able to make decisions.

  • i cant argue communism and its efficiency as i have yet to see it but i am sure socialism can be made to be more efficient. being from the UK and having the carcass of what was once our publicly owned NHS i know that after WW2 under a Labour government we saw the NHS rise from nothing within 3 years, Labour at the time were socialist. the NHS was revolutionary at the time. we also mass built affordable housing. these are all things we struggle to achieve now.

So while I agree that the current level of wealth inequality is not good, communism is certainly not the solution. All it does is change where the lines of inequality are drawn. It usually kills a few million people for no good reason, too.

so your a reformist?

[–] Censored@lemmy.world -1 points 5 months ago

Are you familiar with twentieth century Chinese or Soviet history? If you are impressed by communism, you really should read up on what happened in nations that implemented it, or attempted to implement it, in the last hundred years.

Communism doesn't redistribute power to the lower classes. It redistributes power to the Communist Party members - usually an inner circle. The people who are running the massive government that is required to operate a nation with all the central planning that communism requires. The new privileged class becomes the top technocrats and their families.

It's impossible for wealth distribution to be equal. Wealth is not just money, it is also assets. Say you strip all the assets away from people - let's say housing - and redistribute it. OK - Now everyone has a house. But all houses are not created equal. Some houses are nicer than others. Some locations are nicer than others. Everyone will want to move into the nicest house in the nicest city, but obviously they can't all fit. So what do you do? Someone has to work on the farm and grow wheat. How do you force people to work on a collective farm? What about people who don't want to work? Do they get the same housing as the workers who contribute to society? Even if you house everyone, including providing free housing for those who won't pay, what about the people who don't WANT to live in a house? Do you force them to live in a detention center? What about their kids? They keep having more kids... Do you forcibly sterilize them, or do you put their kids into an orphanage, hoping that the state can do a better job raising workers than their lazy parents? And then, what about the homeless? The people who actually prefer living outside? Obviously if they refuse to live in their house, they have fewer assets than others. Now your society isn't equal anymore, it's just made some changes in who have wealth.

Yes, socialism can be made more efficient. The trick to it is my introducing a mix of capitalism so you have a mixed market economy. Like in China.

Am I a reformist? It depends on what you want to reform, and what kind of reform you're talking about. I'd like to see more direct democracy, which I believe can be achieved in my home country through reforms. But in some other countries, it can only be achieved via revolution. For economic systems, a mix of capitalism and socialism seems to be the best thing we've found so far. No doubt a better economic system will be discovered someday. But it is not communism. Communism is too extreme. It's not a good system, and it has failed everywhere it's been tried.