541
Zelenskyy: If Trump Has Plan to End the Ukraine War 'He Should Tell Us Today'
(www.commondreams.org)
this post was submitted on 04 Jul 2024
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This is really not that hard, its to negotiate peace with the main part being that Ukraine will never join nato. Its almost like we could have totally avoided hundreds of thousands of dead people if our foreign policy didnt suck so bad.
Putin should have no reason to give a rat's ass if any country is in NATO, unless he plans on invading it.
They correctly feel that nato is an anti soviet/russian union. Why should they not be concerned about it getting on their border?
What is NATO doing to interfere with Russia's domestic operations and sovereignty? Ukraine is not Russia, so Russia should have no say in the matter just because they're next to each other.
Same thing would apply if Ukraine were to invade Russia. Ukraine would have no business doing so.
Putting arms near their border... This has been a known problem since the cuban missle crisis.
I'm also curious how annexing a country and extending your borders to countries already in NATO solves that problem?
And what history does NATO have of using their arms for offensive purposes, rather than defense?
A really big history... Take a peak at what countries are in nato and realize they have a long history of being directly in conflict with Russia/Soviet Union.
You mean like being a part of the USSR and wanting nothing to do with them?
Or directly fighting them and having a 40 year long cold war. Maybe most of those countries have been in direct war with russia in recent memory.
Or maybe Ukraine isn't the aggressor here and Putin is proving why Ukraine wants to be in NATO
Ukraine is not the aggressor, I never said it was. What I will say is that this was was 100% preventable with the promise that Ukraine would not join nato. It was a known red line, and it was crossed. "BUT UKRAINE CAN DO WHAT IT WANTS!!!" Great, and NATO can directly say we dont want a conflict and we dont want Ukraine to be a part because we know it is a line that will likely trigger a war.
Russia doesn’t get to dictate what sovereign nations do. They can fuck off back to their own country, that would put an immediate stop to the war.
Thats true, but what if we had listened to them and prevented hundreds of thousands of dead people? Why would that have been bad?
What if they had listened to us and not fucking invaded a sovereign nation? Why would that have been bad?
Moreover, surrendering whatever Russia sticks a flag in is appeasement nonsense. We've already seen this strategy before WWII: *oh, Germany will be OK if we just cede Czechoslovakia. Oh, Germany won't attack if we cede Alsace-Lorraine...." An aggressive power like Russia, who already tried to annex large portions of another sovereign nation in 2008 (they invaded Georgia and got their shit kicked in because they tried the whole "three day thunder run" strategy), almost certainly will not stop if you just "give them what they want". Eventually, they'll want more, and more, and more, and you wind up surrendering slice after slice after slice of your country.
So then nato gets to constantly aggress on them and they cant do anything? And then you are shocked that they invaded.
“Aggress on them” by existing on their border? This is apologist and appeasement nonsense. Russia’s rights end at their borders.
Except that the cuban missle crises shows the US completely disagrees (unless it is convenient at that moment). Do you not see how this war was 100% avoidable if nato did not cross the directly drawn line?
Comparing them to our imperialist actions isn’t the brilliant argument that you think it is.
At any rate, NATO has never offered membership to Ukraine — they’ve been explicitly told their corruption issues were a non-starter.
And, of course, Ukraine only started those talks following Russia invading Crimea in 2014. Again, Russia is the clear aggressor here. Get real.
You are correct that they didnt offer it yet, but it was on the table, and NATO knew that was the reddest of red lines. You also do even know why russia took over Crimea in the first place.
And yes, how america would react is imporant because it shows how we really feel, not just propaganda about how they can do what they please.