this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2024
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I'd like to see fewer angry communists. Regular communists don't bother me, but don't be so aggressive about it.
Where are you finding non-angry Communists, except in Communist spaces where we don't have to argue with liberals all the time?
Not on Lemmy, hence it's what I'd like to change.
Hexbear.net is generally pretty happy until a liberal walks in.
I think I have that instance blocked.
You may, or your instance may not be federated with them. You can browse it anonymously or make an account that is federated with them if you want to see it.
My instance doesn't block it, but I blocked it with the recent feature added in 0.19.3 or 4, give or take. I think I got tired of seeing the angry people.
Typically, posters from the big three only really get pissy when some know-nothing democrat-- or worse, an actively-malicious republican-- pulls up to start being a Jerry Sanchez all over the discussion. Sounds super straw-mannish out of you...
They usually aren't angry, in my experience.
happier communists? do you mean slrpnk.net?
Eh, solarpunk itself is an aesthetic, not an ideology. As such, like cottagecore and other aesthetics without ideological backing, there does exist a subset of ecofascists and ecofascist adjacent ideologies.
Hexbear.net fits "happy communists" better.
disagreed! there is an aesthetic but there is also separately an ideology, and ecofascism is certainly not welcome on (e.g.) slrpnk.net. solarpunk as an ideological movement is essentially climate-focused indigenous futurism with an anarcho-socialist bend
That's not a coherent ideology, that's an aesthetic pulled from a ghibli-inspired milk commercial, which again reveals how an aesthetic can get taken advantage of by right-wing interests if there is no strong ideological framework.
There's no call to action, no theory to set to praxis. There is a goal, but no method to get there. Like all such movements, its doomed to fail the way the Owenites did.
I love environmentalism and solar energy, veganism and self-sustainability. However, solarpunk as an encompassing "movement" is not the path there, as it's an aesthetic.
This is written like someone that hasn't kept up with solarpunk since that commercial came out.
What theory and praxis has come out since then?
Idk why you think it has to have theory or praxis to be a movement. It does have a manifesto but I kinda doubt you care about that. There's enough people that are interested in the topics that solarpunk encompasses to give it legitimacy.
Tbh your position is kinda disenfranchising to people that got into gardening, anti consumption, diy, gurilla grafting or any other facet of solarpunk because of it being under the umbrella.
I was interested, actually. I read through it, a lot of things people say they stand for and against, and what types of art styles they like and envision, but no actual theory or praxis behind it.
I already stated why it needs a strong ideological backbone to avoid being taken advantage of by ecofascists, but I'll restate it: bad actors can and will use the aesthetic to push alternative messaging, just like what already happened to cottagecore.
Those are certainly good things, I never stated that Solarpunk is only "bad," in fact I think many good things have come from it. However, to paint it as a place of "happy communists" when there have been ecofascists using it to push their messaging, is a bit off, hence why I pointed it out and explained my issues with it overall.
I've not been aware of ecofascist cooping the movement. But I imagine the vegan mods would sus that out quickly π
I suppose my point is that a movement doesn't have to know everything about itself to be effective and while anecdotal; I've learned a lot about communism/socialism and mutual aid from solarpunk spaces.
Not saying the Solarpunk community on Lemmy definitely has it, but it is a problem with the "movement" itself overall, like all aesthetic-movements do.
That's a good thing! I would still try to learn and read Theory outside of a solarpunk context though.
I've picked up Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin at the request of a comrade at our mutual aid organization. But I still don't think you understand that Solarpunk is a point of intersection to extend a post scarcity, environmental sustainability and social justice to people that are less aware of these concepts.
The Bread Book is pretty good, but Anarchism and Other Essays by Emma Goldman would probably be better when it comes to actual Praxis.
I also wouldn't discount Marxism either. Anarchism is appealing to new leftists, but there are many misconceptions about Marxism I see in Anarchist circles, like the idea of Communism not having a Government. Marx wasn't an Anarchist, he advocated for central planning and a government run by the people, but without the previous elements of Capitalist society he called the "state," ie Private Property Rights and Capitalist policing.
It's a vibe, and an aesthetic. People fans of the aesthetic can also push methods of theory and praxis, but as it stands it is generally describing an ideal, without the structures or actions necessary to get there. Marxism and Anarchism both have those answers, Solarpunk by itself does not, which is why I am saying it is vulnerable to bad actors.
If it doesn't have ideas and it isn't testing those ideas through social practice it isn't a movement?
Except movements are rarely focused like that. I doubt The Black Panthers knew school lunches and child care were going to be the traction they needed when they started theirs. Just like I doubt the kid that just heard of solarpunk and wants to learn how to grow veggies because of it, understands what their effort might do to change their community.
I'll admit solarpunk is very much in a spaghetti on the wall phase rn. But it's also barely a decade old.
Incorrect, the Black Panther Party was Marxist-Leninist and was attempting to build up a vanguard party, and a part of that theory is building up dual power and parallel structures to fold the public in and garner support.
Effective political action is focused and intentional. The BPP had a plan. There is no central solarpunk organ for democratic decision making, there is no party program. They have nothing that would make them an effective org.
It's focused after they realize what is effective. The BPP had a plan after canned food drives and fund raisers weren't. Why does there have to be a central organ for it to be a movement? I never claim for solarpunk to be an organization. But at this point I feel like you intentionally missing the point. Thanks for the talk though.
No, it wasn't. Have you read any of the first hand accounts of the BPP?
The point of movements is to accomplish things. Solarpunk isn't a movement if there is no theory of change.
you're welcome to check out solarpunk thought leaders like andrewism! though i have to admit i doubt anything anywhere will ever meet your standards
How the fuck do aesthetics have thought leaders are you serious? Should I start calling OneohtrixPointNever a thought leader in fuckin post-gothic electronic shoegaze or whatever the hell his whole aesthetic is called?
Solarpunk isn't an ideology though, it's an aesthetic that can be molded depending on the views of those using it. I never said good people can't use solarpunk to push a good message, I said there's nothing stopping people from using Solarpunk to spread a bad message.
that's the conversation we're having, isn't it? i'd say solarpunk as an ideology predates solarpunk the aesthetic. che guevara shirts are sold in stores, after all.
this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-Ng5ZvrDm4
Well, whenever the actions of capitalists stop affecting me and start being more escapable, that's the exact minute I'll stop being so angry. Sound like a deal?
Giving some real "live your life however you want but don't jam it down my throat" energy and that's... Nah, fam. That's not the wave.
We all have problems.
Edit to add: yelling about them on the internet doesn't do anything to solve them. Talking about it might.
Okay, do you think people have the right to get angry at problems they have in their life due to an incredibly violent and inefficient system?
Yes, there's plenty of anger all over the world. Plenty of people who have been wronged. The type of stuff I'm referring to is more like "owning a house and having people pay you money so they can live there is criminal", but in an "all caps" sort of tone. That sort of thing.
Feel free to talk about how rent is too high, we need legislation, etc. etc., but if you go straight to some sort of off-the-wall ideology and you're very loud about it without discussing the nuances, my preference would be for the culture of Lemmy to not be that.
The system that makes housing operate that way is criminal. Housing should not be a commodity
Honestly in most discussions I find the communists to be the more nuanced of the bunch.
Well, it's a nice strawman you erected to put on a piΓ±ata show for the class. Let's hear what you think is "some sort of off-the-wall ideology"; 'cause at this point, I'd bet my left eye you're about to say some shit that eventually terminates at "I'm okay with the global north murdering anyone they need to to maintain hegemony".
EDIT: π¦πΆ, π¦πΆ, π¦πΆ...
People do talk, sometimes talking doesn't work, and yelling does.