this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
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[–] nachobel@lemmy.world 239 points 1 year ago (8 children)

Remember when the Afghan people had a phenomenally well equipped and well trained army, and then they just gave up inside a week because things were “hard”?

Like if you don’t give a shit…no one is going to give a harder shit about you than you will.

[–] donuts@kbin.social 113 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Yeah man, I feel sorry for the people who will have to live under the fucking Taliban, but we've spent way too much time, money and blood on Afghanistan already.

We shouldn't have been there in the first place, but for them to just instantly roll over to the Taliban... Just compare it to Ukraine, where they are fighting for their lives and freedom against a much more powerful enemy.

It's long past time for Afghanistan to deal with their own problems.

[–] roboticide@lemmy.world 55 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, like what do they expect? Another foreign military intervention?

That will not happen again for decades at best. Longer if all the developed nations really learn from America's mistake this time.

Sure, we can sanction them, but any aid just gets intercepted, so that's out. It sucks so many Afghans are suffering under the system, but it's the system they let happen. Did they want to be an occupied country forever? Was this a fight America was expected to wage indefinitely? Twenty years was already too long.

[–] Microw@lemm.ee 48 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They should have trained the Afghani women who have an actual reason to fight against the Taliban, instead of the lazy men who instantly capitulated.

[–] vanontom@geddit.social 19 points 1 year ago

I never thought about this at the time. It was all just shocking and frankly pathetic. Didn't realize the men had the least at stake, while women had the most, but were not allowed to join the fight. Many men probably didn't care or even resented the "changes". (Women's rights. Sounds familiar. MAGA?) Unwilling to put up any kind of fight for that kind of future for their partners and daughters.

I wonder what most Afghan women think of these men now. And if joining the military was ever a realistic possibility, and could have changed the result.

Kipling has some lines about what happens when you give Afghan women knives

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Tbf Afghanistan defeated a much stronger Russia back in the 80s.

With less help than Ukraine gets.

Edit: so the downvotes are just ignorant of history or are they trying to rewrite it to suit their own agendas? Regardless, not a good sign for the future.

It's not the graveyard of empires because it's farmland.

[–] Deathcrow@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Tbf Afghanistan defeated a much stronger Russia back in the 80s.

Those were pretty much the Taliban though. No one doubts the will to fight of the Taliban.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Well the Taliban took over the pieces after the U.S. abandoned the Mujhaideen.

Funny how history repeats.

[–] Historical_General@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The downvotes are probably because you seem to 'ignore' the US role in arming the Taliban.

[–] postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

See below. This was addressed yesterday.

[–] Kinglink@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago

I wonder if it was "hard" or "I want the Taliban to take over." There's probably a decent amount of people in that area that can fundamentally agree with the Taliban. it's a religious and oppression group. If you're ideologically aligned with the Taliban, and male, you're probably either as good or better of under them.

Not saying this is everything but I imagine there's at least some people who are ok with the new government, mostly because they don't care about others over their own self.

[–] livus@kbin.social 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

First of all, none of these women were in that army so painting this as the consequences of their actions seems a bit dishonest.

Second, I remember when they were alleged to have a phenomenal army but it turned out most of that was on paper not real.

The facade crumbled.

[–] LordOfTheChia@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago

I wonder how things would have turned out if the US had built up divisions of the Afghan army with women.

[–] ballogh@lemm.ee 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

none of these women were in that army so painting this as the consequences of their actions seems a bit dishonest.

What makes you think that these women who choose their culture as dignity would oppose their rulers which they gained power from it?

[–] livus@kbin.social 2 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry but I don't understand this question, could you maybe rephrase it or explain your reasoning? I don't think these women have "gained power" it seems like the opposite.

First woman quoted in the article (a refugee):

“I had a beautiful house and a job that I loved. I lived with my family, I had friends and I was pregnant. But I lost my baby, I fled my country without my husband and now I live here alone. I’m safe, but do you think I’m happy, do you think I can sleep at night knowing my family’s situation in Afghanistan?”

[–] DarkGamer@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] Doorbook@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Remember that the government is installed by the US and allies. If they actually care, the could have spent some time to find candidates that can gather people around and build a unionized front along with education and infrastructure. The reality is they put a thief in power who is now living somewhere in Europe and enjoying his wealth.

Blaming a victim complaining about their experience or at least expectations is in bad taste.

[–] Cleverdawny@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

candidates that can gather people around and build a unionized front along with education and infrastructure

I don't think that person existed in Afghanistan.

The ANA never had very good moral, just read the experiences of US troops with them.

[–] TheRazorX@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Remember when the Afghan people had a phenomenally well equipped and well trained army, and then they just gave up inside a week because things were “hard”?

You didn't read the Afghanistan Papers did you?

[–] DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] dannoffs@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 1 year ago

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/documents-database/

There is also a book by the same name. I also recommend the documentary Bitter Lake by Adam Curtis.