896
xkcd #743: Infrastructures (lem.trashbrain.org)
submitted 10 months ago by Jakylla@sh.itjust.works to c/xkcd@lemmy.world

Title text: The heartfelt tune it plays is CC licensed, and you can get it from my seed on JoinDiaspora.net whenever that project gets going.


Transcript2003:

[Cueball approaches a bearded fellow.]

Cueball: Did you get my essay?
Bearded Fellow: Yeah, it was good! But it was a .doc; You should really use a more open-
Cueball: Give it a rest already. Maybe we just want to live our lives and use software that works, not get wrapped up in your stupid nerd turf wars.
Bearded Fellow: I just want people to care about the infrastructures we're building and who-
Cueball: No, you just want to feel smugly superior. You have no sense of perspective and are probably autistic.

2010:

Cueball: Oh my God! We handed control of our social world to Facebook and they're DOING EVIL STUFF!
Bearded Fellow: Do you see this?

[Inset, the bearded fellow rubs his index and middle fingers against his thumb.]

Bearded Fellow: It's the world's tiniest open-source violin.


top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 162 points 10 months ago

Hot take but PDFs became the primary form of document transfer because Microsoft made .doc, docx, docm, rtf, doc 2003-2020...

All those "It won't open" just forced everyone to say "Fuck it send me the PDF"

[-] Mic_Check_One_Two@reddthat.com 65 points 10 months ago

Pretty much. PDF was specifically designed to retain the same look across any device. The goal was that if you designed a document to look a certain way, that opening it on another device wouldn’t fuck your entire design. That’s also why editing PDFs is so damned frustrating, because they’re designed to not change. It largely started as a frustration with the “move an image 3 pixels to the left, and now all your text is in the wrong place” issue. But the EEE strategy by Microsoft directly contributed to pdf becoming the de facto way to share documents.

[-] Darkmuch@lemmy.world 30 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

My Dad got frustrated with docs as people saw that as an invitation to edit the document, or cut and paste stuff he would write. So he switched to using PDF whenever other people got involved.

[-] Mic_Check_One_Two@reddthat.com 26 points 10 months ago

Yeah, that’s ironically what Microsoft has been moving towards. Collaborative editing is incredible when used properly. But that also means anyone with edit access can mess up your carefully crafted document. Luckily, things like Comments are becoming more commonplace, so people can suggest edits without actually being able to commit them.

It doesn’t solve the copy/pasting issue, but you can copy/paste from PDFs these days anyways. Realistically, even saving it as an image won’t solve that, since most devices can recognize text in images now.

[-] overzeetop@lemmy.world 48 points 10 months ago

Well, that and every time you touch a DOC/DOCX file it reformats itself to your local settings, fucking up the entire layout. PDF is a terrible, inefficient, poorly (or at least variably) implemented format which was proprietary for two decades but is now about the best option we have for a document to look the same at the recipient end as the sender and still include text, vector, bitmapped, semi-interactive, and certifiable/traceable contents.

[-] greenskye@lemm.ee 35 points 10 months ago

I really, really hate that so many people still try to share ebooks as PDFs. Why that was ever a thing makes no sense to me. Yes, I absolutely wish to read a 500 page novel on portrait letter size pages with tiny font that completely ignores my screen size.

[-] oatscoop@midwest.social 8 points 10 months ago

I've given up on trying to find certain books in sane formats. Thankfully Calibre is really good at converting PDFs to actual ebook formats.

There's a bit of a learning curve, and sometimes I have to do a little semi-automated cleanup -- but it works.

[-] greenskye@lemm.ee 4 points 10 months ago

Really? I must have had a particularly troublesome PDF. It was almost like running it through OCR, generating hundreds of weird typos and formatting errors when I tried to convert with calibre.

[-] oatscoop@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago

The OCR struggles with some PDFs for whatever reasons: font, formatting, etc.

There are 3rd party PDF OCR websites/programs that work better. If I'm having issues I run it through one of those first.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] FrullaPapaya@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

What are more efficiente and better implemented formats for documents sharing?

[-] MajorHavoc@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

Markdown is gaining traction. There's lots of tools that will edit and display Markdown consistently, and without a dedicated tool, it's just a very readable text file.

And, most importantly for today, it's easy to generate a PDF file from, haha.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] overzeetop@lemmy.world 3 points 10 months ago

TIFF, but the constraints are pretty sever and text must be ocr’d.

[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 3 points 10 months ago

Djvu, but it's toolset is proprietary.

load more comments (11 replies)
[-] geekworking@lemmy.world 18 points 10 months ago

Yes and No.

They were really designed to show the same output on the screen and printer.

Even if you are using the same word processor software and file format, a document can look vastly different when you send it to someone else who doesn't have the same screen resolution or the same fonts installed.

PDF started as just a print preview for the postscript printer language. They should have just stopped there instead of trying to make it do all sorts of other shit that can open security holes.

The constant parade of file formats drove popularity, but it was really about being the only popular format to look the same.

[-] MonkderZweite@feddit.ch 5 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Instead of using .odt.

Maybe with more advertising? Most people don't know about the Open Document Format and that it's standardization sent MS to panicky rework their .doc & co. to pseudo-open OOXML (.docx etc.).

[-] adriaan@sh.itjust.works 11 points 10 months ago

When you save an odt from Word and open it in OpenOffice, the formatting is usually all fucked. At least that used to be the case. A pdf comes out right on the other side.

[-] okamiueru@lemmy.world 20 points 10 months ago

It's intentionally fucked by MS. It doesn't matter that this non-MS software actually follows consistent standards. As long as its only the minority, they get away with it looking like it's the others not being consistent.

MS has a history of doing it. It's in the company ethos of "embrace, extend and extinguish". Imagine something as simple as storing the contents of a document being at the behest of a private company. Humanity is all the worse for it.

[-] bufordt@sh.itjust.works 3 points 10 months ago

DOS isn't done until Lotus won't run.

[-] LogarithmicCamel@feddit.uk 3 points 10 months ago

Except for my local printing shop, which couldn't print my PDF poster for some reason so now they are asking for a PPT. WTF!

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago

There's someone at your local print shop unqualified to be doing their job.

[-] Datas_Cat_Spot@startrek.website 67 points 10 months ago

One thing I've learned over the years: the scruffier looking the IT guy, the more they should be listened to.

[-] elscallr@lemmy.world 31 points 10 months ago

They don't bear the moniker "greybeard" without reason

[-] Klear@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 months ago

I thought that was because they shout a lot.

[-] negativenull@lemm.ee 24 points 10 months ago
[-] TheBat@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago

Except when he eats something from his foot.

[-] TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 23 points 10 months ago

Or talks about paedophilia...

"The nominee is quoted as saying that if the choice of a sexual partner were protected by the Constitution, 'prostitution, adultery, necrophilia, bestiality, possession of child pornography, and even incest and pedophilia' also would be. He is probably mistaken, legally--but that is unfortunate. All of these acts should be legal as long as no one is coerced. They are illegal only because of prejudice and narrowmindedness."

RMS on June 28th, 2003

"I am skeptical of the claim that voluntarily pedophilia harms children. The arguments that it causes harm seem to be based on cases which aren't voluntary, which are then stretched by parents who are horrified by the idea that their little baby is maturing. "

RMS on June 5th, 2006

"There is little evidence to justify the widespread assumption that willing participation in pedophilia hurts children.

Granted, children may not dare say no to an older relative, or may not realize they could say no; in that case, even if they do not overtly object, the relationship may still feel imposed to them. That's not willing participation, it's imposed participation, a different issue. "

RMS on Jan 4th, 2013

That said, when he's talking about the potential dangers of proprietary software, he's usually bang on.

Taking RMS's word as law outside of dev space is like asking Michael Jordan to solve all the geopolitical conflicts in the middle east. Why the fuck would you think he knows anything about that?

[-] Squids@sopuli.xyz 8 points 10 months ago

...I mean if Michael Jordon went around saying "we should just like, carpet bomb the place and take over" I think people would also be pretty horrified

[-] Klear@sh.itjust.works 6 points 10 months ago

I went from "he was probably defending pedophiles not acting on it" to "HOLY FUCK" real fast...

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] oce@jlai.lu 4 points 10 months ago

We're just too pedestrian to get it.

[-] HellAwaits@lemm.ee 63 points 10 months ago

Hot take: while I do appreciate and use FOSS (I'm on Linux), that doesn't make the people who talk about it 24/7 non-stop any less annoying.

[-] lapingvino@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago

Hot take: people being annoying doesn't make them less right about things and if you disregard the warnings you still only have yourself to blame.

[-] themeatbridge@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago

Hotter take: Dismissing a warning because it's annoying is a tacit admission that they are right and you just don't give a shit. People are lazy creatures. We have to make fire alarms the most obnoxious and loud sound in the world because otherwise people wouldn't leave the flaming building.

[-] nomecks@lemmy.world 41 points 10 months ago

I have a great idea for a program! I should describe it in agonizing detail to an AI owned by some company so it will spit out working source code. Nothing can go wrong with my plan!

[-] chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 10 months ago

If you make it open source they can't steal your idea

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 4 points 10 months ago

I mean, they can still steal your idea, fork it, repackage it and charge for it while refusing to upstream their development. But now it's a licensing discussion and not a personal attack.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] aesthelete@lemmy.world 10 points 10 months ago

This is a flawless plan, especially since they pinky swore that they wouldn't keep around the information you put into the black box AI. So we're all safe!

[-] TurtleTourParty@midwest.social 6 points 10 months ago

If AI will stop people from telling me their "amazing" app ideas when they find out I'm a programmer then I'm all for it.

[-] MajorHavoc@lemmy.world 21 points 10 months ago

I feel like that violin is probably written in C. Or maybe Go. Has anyone made this yet? I might have my next weekend project

[-] elxeno@lemm.ee 30 points 10 months ago

It's being re-written in Rust.

[-] kool_newt@lemm.ee 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Unsafe Zig if you wanna play fast..

[-] HonoraryMancunian@lemmy.world 12 points 10 months ago

TIL the xkcd main character(s?) is (are?) called Cueball

[-] Jakylla@sh.itjust.works 7 points 10 months ago

Cueball is the main character; others have their own names; for example Megan (appearing a lot as the main Feminine character)

More recurring characters are listed on this page: https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/Characters

[-] Sotuanduso@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago

It's unofficial, but yeah. People call him that.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 16 Aug 2023
896 points (97.0% liked)

xkcd

8069 readers
187 users here now

A community for a webcomic of romance, sarcasm, math, and language.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS