this post was submitted on 11 May 2024
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[–] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 140 points 5 months ago (2 children)

It’s your fucking duty. It’s why you got an ’estate’. You are a necessary facet of democracy but you need to do your part and act like it so you deserve the protections and benefits provided to you for doing so - like benefit of trust and access to politicians.

With few exceptions, you’re failing to be our eyes and ears and mouths and are instead mouthpieces for ownership and interests.

If it was just your job to make money take off the news armour (yeah you Fox) and stand naked in front of us as the liars you are.

Oof sorry. Got ranty there. It’s all getting to be too much.

[–] kakes@sh.itjust.works 30 points 5 months ago (4 children)

Can you explain the "estate" thing like I'm a 5 year old non-American? (Only one of those is actually true, but I won't say which one)

[–] joby@programming.dev 69 points 5 months ago (1 children)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Estate

Just like within actual government there's supposed to be balance of power between different branches or houses, there's this idea that the role of the press is to hold governments accountable.

(More of an ELI12, but that's the gist of the idea)

[–] kakes@sh.itjust.works 23 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sadly, I feel like the whole "separation of powers" thing is under attack in America and elsewhere as power continues to consolidate over time - even where it pertains to branches within government. Traditional media has long been lost in many cases, and even "alternative" media is so flooded with bad actors that it's nearly impossible to get signal through the noise.

Not to get too dour, but if media is in this state now, I hate to think of where it will be once AI starts to gain a real foothold in our political discourse. I assume we'll start to see the effects of this really become evident this years, with American federal elections ramping up.

[–] bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 17 points 5 months ago (1 children)

The author Tim Wu makes a great argument about corporate power consolidation leading to fascism in his book The Curse of Bigness. He states that leading up to WWII, nations promoted the size of their respective national champions, which in turn led to pressure for an authoritative command economy to ensure their continued dominance. It's a great read and dire warning for the world's current state of affairs.

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[–] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 12 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

France had 3 estates, The Nobles, The Clergy, and the Everyone Else. Another two got added by political theory people over time. Number 4 is the journalists. Number 5 is the alt journalists.

[–] sbv@sh.itjust.works 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Is there a sixth? And please don't say alt alt journalists, because that would be very disappointing.

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[–] Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

You know, I thought I could but on brief search it’s… complicated.

This is the best nugget from Wikipedia that sums up the general notion I’m trying to state that the media has been afforded a role in society - and that they aren’t acting as an independent class.

The modern term the fourth estate invokes medieval three-estate systems, and usually refers to some particular force outside that medieval power structure, most commonly the independent press or the mass media.[3][4]

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[–] A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 77 points 5 months ago (2 children)

If Journalists point that out and report on it, then the Republicans will refuse their interviews and to come on their shows.. and they much rather have the fall of democracy, than risk losing access.

[–] Zink@programming.dev 47 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Here in the land of the free and the home of the brave, we don’t have time to worry about the fall of democracy when the fall of ratings is on the line!

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[–] theareciboincident@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (3 children)

This is the paradox of liberalism.

You have blue MAGA outlets like NPR that spent the last 8 years being “fair” to both sides, telling their audience the antivax fascist psychopaths are just as valid and worthy as the left trying to give people education and healthcare.

As if conservative views are even worth recognizing.

Liberalism without a STRONG left wing always ends in fascism, and the liberals are more than happy to join the fascists (see: literally all liberal discourse on Lemmy).

Guess what the US has spent the past 80 years doing. Real coincidence every time a country leans left, they are overthrown by CIA puppets.

So now you have liberals in literal tears trying to get their guy elected without even fucking understanding the issues at play. They don’t give a shit.

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[–] fosho@lemmy.ca 70 points 5 months ago (59 children)

"bbbbut thuh Dems haven't done anything to EARN my vote" and other such brain dead takes from ding dongs who don't understand basic pragmatic logic.

[–] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 45 points 5 months ago (1 children)

* From dingdongs who are repeating -- accidentally or on purpose -- some bullshit that was professionally constructed to emotionally resonate and sound convincing on surface level, so that when people spread it on social media it can do its job and help Trump get elected and fuck up the country absolutely beyond recognition

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[–] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 33 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Private Media's duty is to the shareholders.

And if you look at who the big shareholders are voting for (and donating to and campaigning for) it's the Trump GOP.

Sinclair Media, iHeartCommunications, News Corp, Amazon Media Group, Twitter...

These guys are lockstep with the conservative movement.

[–] archomrade@midwest.social 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)

These groups also donate heavily to the DNC.

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[–] nifty@lemmy.world 27 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago) (2 children)

The end of democracy in the U.S. is not going to come from fascist conservatives, but from too-busy-with-life normies, the type who don’t vote in anything but presidential elections. They’re just too busy to notice anything other than their bills.

In their minds, they’re going to “punish” the blues for inflation while ignoring that the reds only ever made them poorer. These type of people don’t care about genocides (someone else’s problem, there’s always brown people dying, Israel is an ally etc), abortion rights (only stupid people get pregnant or only sluts need that), or trans people (that’s too weird for them). They don’t care about climate change (it’s a topic up for debate, it’s not factual), but have kids. They don’t care about workers rights, but work deadend or multiple jobs. They don’t care about getting more healthcare rights, but are a medical emergency away from bankruptcy.

I am not saying these people are dumb or callous, they need outreach and they need to be presented clearly with their options and outcomes. If you can, volunteer to sign people up to vote and present what’s at stake.

[–] ytg@sopuli.xyz 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

In my country, basically everyone accepts climate change, except perhaps the most conservative and those who already believe in conspiracy theories. What is going on in the US?

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[–] suction@lemmy.world 23 points 5 months ago (3 children)

But but Biden didn’t personally go to Gaza to act as a human shield against Israeli shelling, so I don’t care if Trump wins!!

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[–] milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee 20 points 5 months ago (4 children)

So, something the better journalists have to be careful with, is using neutral language even in certain clearly one-sided situations. That's not just to not upset people on both sides; it helps to inform the truth to those who want to read carefully and critically.

If I read, "beware! The right-wingers are conspiring to make a fascist government!" then all I can do is shrug at another sensationalist conspiracy clickbait.

If I read factual details of things said, done and published by said right-wingers: it turns out I'm capable myself of seeing something is bad or good. Sure, it's still the journalist's job to interpret the facts to a degree, but those facts should be as transparent as possible and attaching inflammatory language, even if appropriate, often obscures that.

There is a place for opinion writers. But we need, I think, more of the less-opinioned honest truth for honest people. Even if that scares you that readers might not take up your call to arms as quickly as you think they ought.


Sorry, that went a bit off the rails, because I'm not quite sure how to express - though I still think it's true - the important place for journalism that doesn't call a spade a spade but tells you its shape so you can understand.

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[–] Daft_ish@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

Everything should be prefaced with the fact conservatives don't think it's possible they can lose.

[–] Crampon@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago (2 children)
[–] repungnant_canary@lemmy.world 8 points 5 months ago (1 children)
[–] Crampon@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago (1 children)

Sure. But i subscribed for memes. If I wanted simplified compressed political statements I would go to twitter.

Try posting it to woodworking or knitting if themes doesn't matter.

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