Memes

That's true, but it's not that hard either.

Maybe for very simple calculations like this one, but for more complex ones parenthesis actually make them much harder to read and write. If you've ever built a complex functions in Excel you know how difficult it gets because for 90% of the excel operations require parenthesis which means it works exactly like you'd want math to work. Just yesterday I had to do a more complex index match search in excel and excel corrected my parenthesis, because when your function is supposed to end with 5 parenthesis good luck keeping track of how many parenthesis you actually need to write out. Similarly if a week later I would have to change something inside that same function it's going to take a lot more time to deconstruct the formula because of the abundance of parenthesis.

And the addition of parenthesis in math is entirely unnecessary because the nature of most operators already dictates the order of operations. Exponents are just multiplications and multiplication are just additions. 2^3^ is the same as 2 x 2 x 2 is the same 2 + 2 + 2 + 2. If you take the example in the image then 2 + 2x4 transposed into additions is 2 + (2 + 2 + 2 + 2), parenthesis added to indicate what used to be the multiplication. Why people get it wrong is because they don't understand the nature of those operators and so they do (2+2)x4 which is how they get (2+2)+(2+2)+(2+2)+(2+2) = 16. The order is clear, you can't do addition before you do multiplication, because multiplication is a certain form of addition, and you can't do multiplication before you do exponents, because exponents are a certain form of multiplication. The inverse functions maintain the same order of the function they're inverting, meaning you can do subtraction before division and you can't do division before rooting. No need for parenthesis for the natural order of operations. Parenthesis serve a purpose when you need to denote exceptions to the natural order of operations, like (2+2) x 4.

Multiplication is a notation which means add some number by itself a number of times.

5 x 3 = 5 +5 + 5

2 * 4 = 2 + 2 + 2 +2

So when you see some like 2 + 4 * 2 it literally means. 2+4+4

To be clear, it's the standard order of operations (PEMDAS) that is arbitrary. The expression in the post, assuming PEMDAS, is not arbitrary. There's only one correct answer.

Also, I dunno man. The window from where math is complicated enough to have multiple different operators to where expressions get too complicated to be easily readable with just parentheses to denote order should be passed by like, early to mid highschool, if not junior high. Point being, frankly if you're struggling with PEMDAS, your either still a high schooler, or you probably should be.

Or we can all learn polish notation

I will literally commit hate crimes against all of humanity if I had to write brackets around all operations in math. Surely remembering 6 things is easier than writing out brackets 100 times a day

always use parentheses to denote order, there are no implied parentheses

I completely agree on this, and yes, this is what I always do, cuz... well, we're human, we make mistakes, parentheses makes things easily visible, thus cutting down on mistakes.

Still, I do know operation order, as a rule I mean. In simple calcs like these, making a mistake is almost impossible. Thus, people that answered 16 probably just don't know the order... that is something you learn in 1st, 2nd grade, it's not quantum mechanics we're talking about here.

lazy mfs from centuries ago who were mortified by the thought of having to write ( and ) too much (lord what i wouldn’t give to hop in a time machine and show them lisp) should not be dictating our mathematical notation in this century.

We only do that cuz we're not sure how the compiler will interpret the operation order, and there's waaaay too many versions and different languages to actually remember how each of them interprets math operation order. So, we do a safe bet, put parentheses on everything. Hell, I do it as well, I just can't be bothered to remember if C interprets it like this, Python like that, Rust like... god knows what. They should, in theory, know math operation order, but let's face it, we all do it cuz we've been faced with bugs that are a direct result of the compiler not intepreting things as it should.

That being said, yes, I do agree that prentheses on everything, even math on paper, is the way to go. Plus, even people that don't know operation order, will learn it a lot qucker if you just show them how easy things become once you start using prentheses.

Bold of you to assume people would get how parentheses work. Especially when multiplying blocks of additive parentheses (unless you'd expect to always write the expanded form, please tell me you wouldn't)

It's not an equation, it's simple math, like one used in a grocery store. You have 2 apples and then you pick up 4 more pairs of apples, how many apples you got?

As I said, it's not quantum mechanics, it's basic simple math.

I bet your alarm clock app also uses simple math problems like this one. It's expected for a grown up or a teenager to be able to solve this, that is why they put it on alarm clock app. It's not something that's meant to be easily forgotten. That is why you learn these things when you're very young, so they stick with you for the rest of your life. But from the answers, it's easy to notice that most have never even learned this in the first place, at all. Why? Your guess is as good as mine 🤷.

I mean, I’m a machinist

Now do electronics. You won't be getting away from the math in that field. Unless you're TRYING to create some smoke.

People out here saying "why would you expect anyone to know basic elementary school math!?" it was the only logical progression from "no one needs to know how to solve mysterious factors!! (algebra)"

It's cut off at the bottom. 10 might be there, or even add your own option might be there.

For me it's 13 because it's the "wrongest" one. Every single number in the term is even so you'd expect people to at least choose something that is even, too. Not only is 13 odd, it's a friggin prime..

Yeah I'm aware of the interview, but he also looks like the actor from Idiocracy and the expression he was making when he realized the time skip.

It is, in fact, completely arbitrary. There is no reason why we should read 1+2*3 as 1 + (2*3) instead of (1 + 2) * 3 except that it is conventional and having a convention facilitates communication. No, it has nothing to do with set theory or mathematical foundations. It is literally just a notational convention, and not the only one that is still currently used.

Edit: I literally have an MSc in math, but good to see Lemmy is just as much on board with the Dunning-Kruger effect as Reddit.

I wouldn't call the "best" solution to a clearly wrong option, the same as I wouldn't call the "best" option jumping off a cliff to an assured death instead burning alive on a fire, but yeah it's the option closes to the real one.

Ohhh I see. Those 26%ers trying their best to approximate

B/P are the same (brackets/parentheses) and O/E are the same (order/exponent), and the order of M and D doesn't matter since those two have equal priority and are evaluated left-to-right. Hence PEMDAS, BODMAS, BEDMAS, etc. are all the same.