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Opinion: Why is the pundit class so desperate to push Biden out of the race? (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 4 months ago by pelespirit@sh.itjust.works to c/politics@sh.itjust.works
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According to one journalist’s tally, the New York Times has run 192 stories on the subject since the debate, including 50 editorials and 142 news stories. The Washington Post, which has also gone for saturation coverage, published a resignation speech they wrote for him. Not to be outdone, the New Yorker’s editor-in-chief declared that Biden not going away “would be an act not only of self-delusion but of national endangerment” and had a staff writer suggest that Democrats should use the never-before-deployed 25th amendment.

Although the Biden administration seems to have run extremely well for three and a half years, with a strong cabinet, few scandals and little turnover, a thriving economy and some major legislative accomplishments, the narrative the punditocracy has created suggest we should ignore this record and decide on the basis of the 90-minute debate and reference to newly surfaced swarms of anonymous sources that Biden is incompetent. Quite a lot of them have been running magical-realism fantasy-football scenarios in which it is fun and easy to swap in your favorite substitute candidate. The reality is that it is hard and quite likely to be a terrible mess. Nevertheless, this pretense is supposed to mean that telling a presidential candidate in mid-campaign to get lost is fine.

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[–] ptz@dubvee.org 7 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Yeah, I can't take any of those pundits (or Lemmings) seriously when they're making those claims. It's already a chaotic election, and that would introduce a whole new level of chaos 3 months before it. For the right wingers, it makes sense to be sowing that kind of chaos. For our side to be joining in is absolute insanity.

Also, the fantasy football comparison is spot on.

Like, Biden's the incumbent and candidate. Deal with it. If he's unable to perform his duties for whatever reason, we have a procedure for that (and for those fantasy football pundits, you'll get your President Harris).

[–] Krono 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Surely some Biden naysayers are Republican ops, and some are lifelong Biden-haters like myself. But look at the state of the race: Biden is losing horribly.

If you think democracy is on the line, if you're afraid of fascism and project 2025, then how can you continue to support a candidate that is almost sure to lose? Biden needs to pull off the biggest comeback in modern political history, yet he can't form a coherent sentence.

Yes, I hate Kamala too. And yes, changing candidates would be chaotic. But at least with Kamala we would have a chance to stop Trump.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Why do you hate Biden and Kamala?

[–] Krono 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Biden has been on the wrong side of almost every political issue in his career. I don't want to write a full essay so I'll just name a few.

His political achievements include championing the brutal, racist crime bill; making student loan debt undischargable even in bankruptcy, and fighting against the public option.

Once when I worked at a credit card company, and it confused me that every bank in this nation had the same address for their billing dept- Wilmington, Delaware. I learned later that this was largely because "the Senator from MBNA", as Joe Biden was once known, was the most corrupt pro-corporate Democrat. Reducing the tax and regulatory burden on corporations is a race to the bottom. Biden won this corrupt race, and walked away with pockets full of ~~bribes~~ campaign contributions.

Later in life I went through a medical bankruptcy, but I still have my student loans thanks to Biden.

And now, whether due to dementia or Zionist fervor, Biden has gone further than other rightwing warmongers like Reagan and HW Bush in allowing Israel to do whatever it pleases with US weapons. Biden circumvents US law to send weapons to Israel, and he addresses the nation to spread false Israeli propaganda. Remember when Biden said, multiple times, that he saw "pictures of 40 beheaded babies"? I can't get over how disgusting that lie is. How can anyone with even a shred of morality lie to the entire nation like that...

Biden is aiding and abetting a genocide. If the Nuremburg laws applied to US presidents, he would be found guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity.

As for Kamala, I hate her for her faux progressivism and because she is a cop. When she started her primary run, her policy platform was center-left; she was trying to be a milquetoast Bernie Sanders. When this failed, she adopted the center-right mainstream democratic party platform (and failed again). This demonstrates to me that she is not dedicated to policy or ideals, and will instead always shift with the political winds.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Okay, I'm not going to argue with you, you seem to have made up your mind. Why do you hate Trump?

[–] Krono 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm happy to hear any pushback or argument.

As for your question, when I think of all the ways the United States is evil: militarism and neverending war, economic imperialism, racism and xenophobia, corporatism and the rotting "middle class", obsession with weaponry, a lack of critical thinking; all of these are fascist traits. Donald Trump embodies each one of these traits. He is a fascist.

Fascism is the most destructive and evil ideology in the modern world. In my opinion, if a fascist dictatorship ever gains control of America, the human species will go extinct.

Trump has some mitigating factors: he is an idiot, and he is motivated by narcissism. If he were instead a competent ideologue things would look significantly worse. But even with those mitigating factors, I believe he is the most dangerous politician of my lifetime, perhaps the most dangerous in the history of America.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

The only pushback I'm going to say on Biden is, you're being kind of naive with politics. You don't get to be the POTUS and still be a saint, it's just not possible (unless you're Jimmy Carter, but he was placed there because of Nixon and got pushed out for being a saint easily). You have to negotiate with terrorists or you can't do the job.

In Isreal's case, they are our allies first of all, that is something every POTUS usually takes into consideration. Also, they probably gave him a shit ton of money. He is beholden to the money class. Every single POTUS is, that's just how it is and probably always will be in America.

IMO, Biden is taking the times we live in (so many fucking racists, anti LGBTQ+ and xenophobes) and also trying to get the most done at the same time. He's doing this all while keeping his money train coming. It's a balancing act that makes me wonder who tf would ever want that job.

When I say I believe in Biden, it's not that he's perfect, he is so far from it. I only trust that his overall intention is to get the most done for the country that he can while our country is being taken over by fascists. That's it. He's already proven he can do it, or at least his staff can. I stand by him.

I would love a Bernie type in office, I just don't think the owner class would ever let that happen. You have to stand by the best that you can get at the time you're in.

[–] Krono 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

You're right that Biden has taken tons of bribes from Israel. AIPAC has directly given him a record-breaking $5 million dollars, and that doesn't count all of the dark money.

For my defense, I dont think I am being naive- I think I have a relatively clear eyed and nuanced view of the US political system. What I am, however, is an idealist. I cling desperately to idealism like it's a life raft in a sea of evil.

I'm not asking for sainthood, but each president in my lifetime has the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocent humans on his hands. If each US leader continues to be a mini-Hitler, I will not support any of them. And if this is truly the only outcome possible for the US system, then the only moral choice is to destroy the US system.

I find inspiration in the words of Aaron Bushnell, shortly before his heroic self-immolation in protest of the ongoing Israeli genocide:

Many of us like to ask ourselves, 'What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?' The answer is, you’re doing it. Right now.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Honest question, how are you going to justify having to kill people if you destroy the US system? Of course, it won't be directly, but all of those safeguards for people's lives will be gone with no money in the system. Make no mistake, people would die. How would you build it back up? I think idealism and naivety are the same thing in regards to politics.

I've known quite a few people in politics. You can not be a politician who is elected and have 100% clean hands. You're going to make mistakes and things will go wrong or have outcomes you didn't predict. The only other option for the size of the US would be fascism and I am not a fan.

Edit: I should add, I'm not saying don't try and fix our system. I think everyone should put in as much energy as they can to fix what we have. There are many great democracies we can learn from. Fixing our SCOTUS would be a great start.

[–] Krono 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Well I'm not at the "destroy the US system" stage yet, I do believe the system can be reformed.

But if it would get to that point, then the justification is simple utilitarianism. If a million people are going to die, and you pull the trolley lever and half a million die instead, then you've done a noble thing.

I agree that politics is dirty, no one is going to have 100% clean hands. But this logic is dangerous, it can be used to justify anything. This logic can be used to justify mistakes and minor corruption, and it can also be used to justify the Holocaust. We have to draw a moral line somewhere. Committing genocide cannot be the cost of doing business.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If a million people are going to die, and you pull the trolley lever and half a million die instead, then you’ve done a noble thing.

Isn't that what Biden is doing though? He is saying that he needs to get elected and he has the best chance historically, so he can keep most of America (legal or not) from dying from pandemics, Muslim bans, border cages, etc. So he's saying, I have to do what it takes to get into power because I know, and have done, what it takes to what is best for America. That includes sucking up to Israel and that perfect spot of not losing Americans and not losing Israel and the war machine's support. Our best presidents usually have the goal of utilitarianism, but none of them would be called perfect in every way. Lots of people died on their watch due to one thing or another.

But this logic is dangerous, it can be used to justify anything. This logic can be used to justify mistakes and minor corruption, and it can also be used to justify the Holocaust.

100% agree, that moral line is why everyone argues about politics, we all have different moral set points. I guess I'm at the "work hard at what you can change" stage. The pressure from everyone on Isreal has been helping and everyone should keep it up. Trump would be much, much worse and it would happen inside our country.

I used to think that once everything was kind of peaceful, that things would only get better. That we would build off of the good things and keep improving everyone's lives. I forgot, and tbf most people forgot, that there are truly evil people that just want power and to hoard money. During those peaceful times, people were building the backbone to take over our country. Democracy at its best, is boring for the most part. At its worst, is trumpism and authoritarianism.

[–] Krono 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

If theres only two tracks, the full-on genocide Trump track, and the slightly slower genocide Biden track, then yes the moral choice is the Biden track. But in the real world there are infinite tracks.

Biden can choose a track where he stops sending American weapons. Biden can choose a track where the US stops vetoing UN peace plans. He can choose a track where his state department doesn't repeat false Israeli propaganda to the American people.

This idea that US politicians must be subservient to Israel or be voted out is from a bygone era. The modern electorate is much less Zionist than it used to be, and the voices of Palestinians are finally starting to gain traction. Now is the time when a principled leader could end the genocide with popular support, but unfortunately Biden is neither principled nor a leader.

Doing a genocide in order to prevent Muslim bans and border cages is not a principled stance, it is not realpolitik morality; instead it is the banality of evil.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I mean this sincerely, you really need to run for office and then let me know how you feel. I'm not going to argue the details because I think you've gotten quite a bit wrong, but I think we agree overall. Being close to politics changes people. I wish we lived in a country where a Bernie could get elected as president. I hope we all fight for this country to be that way.

[–] Krono 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I haven't personally run for office, but I have volunteered for a few campaigns, both local and national, and the experience really radicalized me.

I used to have faith in the Democratic party. I used to believe they were interested in serious policy. I used to believe the party had a moral compass. After seeing it from the inside, I no longer believe these things.

The people used to run the Democratic Party, but now corporations are in control. The final straw was the Clinton administration, since then the Democratic Party is just Republican-lite.

One of the biggest issues for the Bernie campaign was that the DNC was actively working against him. But on this subject I may be more hopeful than you- I believe Bernie was extremely close to the presidency, and I believe the next person to seriously take up the Bernie mantle will have a great chance at winning.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 1 points 4 months ago

I used to have faith in the Democratic party.

I don't have faith in the dem party, I have faith in some of the people in there. It's just like I do for any other party but the r's right now. If they get back to their roots of trying to do the most for all Americans with a smaller government, I'll believe in some of them too. They've 99% lost their way.

I believe Bernie was extremely close to the presidency, and I believe the next person to seriously take up the Bernie mantle will have a great chance at winning.

I hope that's true.

[–] Spitzspot@lemmings.world 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Maybe it has something to do with recent memory of RBG desperately holding on to power that eventually screwed over the country?

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 months ago (1 children)

That was a different situation? If Biden dies, Harris goes in. When RBG died, she left a hole for the republicans to fill.

[–] Spitzspot@lemmings.world 4 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I didn't say anything about dying. Both were/are being selfish and not putting the greater good ahead of their own personal ambitions.

[–] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 2 points 4 months ago

I disagree, I think Biden only ran because he knew how the system worked and he had the best chance to win.

  • Trustworthy
  • Father figure
  • Loves his family
  • Has pulled us out of the pandemic nightmare
  • Started many policies that were actually for the people.
  • Been in politics a long time so he knows, and has proven, how to get around major obstacles.
  • The opposite of trump

He wouldn't run if he knew he didn't have a chance. They're not stupid, they know how to read the public. I trust his people alone, he put in a great staff that's close to him. As I said elsewhere, even if he's not 100%, I'd take him and his staff 1000x over the POS trump. Any other option at this point would probably accidentally get trump in because of lack of knowledge of how the system works. Why do you think the trumpers are going so hard for Biden to step down? Because the know he's got the best chance at winning.

Ask yourself, how did Trump do at the debate? What have you heard?