White Supremacy Iceberg : memes

[–] lil_tank@lemmygrad.ml 40 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Forgot to mention the "only white people know what democracy is, if your constitution wasn't written by white people we don't recognise you as democratic and will wage war and slander you in the media"

[+] AeroLemming@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] Rachelhazideas@lemmy.world 6 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I think there is more nuance to that. The US is a representative democracy with first past the post voting, which was never about the popular vote. It was adopted to deal with issues from a few centuries ago including technological limitations of voting and widespread illiteracy. It was also adopted to deliberately disenfranchise non-white male voters.

Nowadays there is no reason to keep voting this way other than to keep the unpopular party and unpopular politicians in power through gerrymandering.

[+] AeroLemming@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] Rachelhazideas@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I mean, if you look at the Merriam Webster definition of democracy it specifically includes direct and indirect democracies.

Is the voting situation in the US fucked? Absolutely. But it's still a representative democracy regardless. Having equal representation and voting rights is not a prerequisite for this system of government. What you see right now is representative democracy working as intended by this country's founders. Voter disenfranchisement is rooted in the electoral foundations of this country.

We shouldn't be putting democracy on a pedestal because this is a democracy and it's working as intended by people in power. Being a democracy alone doesn't automatically make a country great. We need much more than that. What we need to push for is voting access, literacy, and tear down lobbying and media conglomerates.

[+] AeroLemming@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] Rachelhazideas@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I feel like that's a no true Scotsman fallacy. We look at the word democracy and idealize it as a perfect system of government regardless of how it's implemented. Democracy alone isn't enough. It's one facet in a complicated political machinery. For a democracy to be effective, you have to assume that people are capable of voting in their own interests, people have sufficient media literacy, people aren't forced into voting for the lesser of two evils, and that people have equal access to voting polls. Right now, the US has none of these things done right. It's an ineffective democracy, but a democracy nonetheless.

The thing that we need to recognize is that it is possible for a democracy to be bad. Now, please don't take this as support for a non-democratic government, because that's the last thing on my mind. I'm simply saying that it is possible for democracy to be poorly implemented and still fall within the definition of democracy.

As a reminder, Athenian democracy only allowed 1 in 4 people, who were free male citizens, to vote. That is one of the origins of democracy, and by definition, a type of democracy. People today would be appalled if we applied the same standards, but that doesn't make it any less of a democracy.

[–] thefreepenguinalt@lemmygrad.ml 25 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Ah yes, the bastion of democracy, a document written 200+ years ago by slaveholders

[+] Alunyanners@lemmygrad.ml 32 points 2 years ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] absentthereaper@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 2 years ago

Oh, liberal crackers have been full steam ahead on that bullshit ever since Biden had the nerve to tell Charlamagne the God of all people that if the community wasn't for him, then they (and by proxy, CtG) wasn't Black. And then they turn around and wonder why I pray to every divinity I've ever worshipped that I get to watch this motherfucker rot from within.

[–] Rasm635u@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 2 years ago (3 children)

colorblindness

Can someone please explain this to me?

[–] Axiochus@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago

I reckon it's "not being able to see color", i.e. claiming that you don't recognize the difference between people of different skin color. That can itself be a form of supremacy since it denies the lived reality of many people.

[–] Ronin_5@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 2 years ago

Not understanding the segregation and alienation that people of certain races experience, and assuming they have the same privileges that your class has. For example, not understanding why a black mother having to explain to her children that Starbucks coffee isn’t for them.

[–] CorrodedCranium@leminal.space 8 points 2 years ago

I kind of feel like this would almost work better as one of those iceberg charts YouTube seems to love.

[–] Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 years ago (4 children)

What is "spiritual bypassing"?

Also, go ahead and call me a snowflake, because I do take issue with the "I never owned slaves" bit in the racism section. Not only I've never owned slaves personally, my ancestors were third class citizens until 1917. But fuck me for being a whitey I guess!

[–] PoY@lemmygrad.ml 23 points 2 years ago

it's more that you're shrugging your shoulders as if you don't still benefit from being white just because you or your family didn't own slavery

the blasé not my fault, not my problem attitude

[+] Alunyanners@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 2 years ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

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[–] Shrike502@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 2 years ago (1 children)

Just because your ancestors had owned slaves but you don’t doesn’t automatically absolve you from the fact that your ancestors had caused damage to the ethnicity that white people took slaves from; and that you should address it, admit it was horrific of them to do so and to make up for it.

So I'm damned by the virtue of being born white? I'm not even Anglo. Pretty sure none of my ancestors ever had anything to do with anyone of African descent. Unless you count the ones that lived in USSR and through their labour helped African nations. But I've re-read your comment twice, and I guess it doesn't matter?

[–] relay@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 years ago (1 children)

I don't see it as a "sin" per se. As a white person living in a society dominated by systemic white supremacy, it is your responsibility to undermine that white supremecy and do what you can to make things easier for POC.

Asking white people to feel guilty is liberal idealism. I think it is important to acknowlege the history, then act in what ways one can to fight white supremecy.

If one feels alienated that there is more representation by people that are not white in media, imagine how all media of non white people feel in that similar vein, but it is only straight white male protaganists.

If you look even deeper into whiteness you'll see that there is litte there in terms of culture except white supremecy. If you want cultural ties perhaps one should culturally bond over something other than treating people like shit. The less you care about your whiteness the less people complaining about white people will bother you. There is no reason for any part of your ego to take pride in how white you are. If you find yourself clinging to that, find something else wonderful about you to take pride in, so you can let go of that toxic pride.

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 10 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

He’s not in the United States. How is his society built on “white supremacy”? How is anything you said relevant to anyone outside the US or anglosphere?

His family had nothing to do with owning slaves because their society never interacted with the slave trade in any way. In fact, there’s a strong chance that his white ancestors were literally slaves themselves in the Russian Empire. I know mine were.

Also where does he have “toxic pride”????

[–] absentthereaper@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

Then that's what he should've led with. Not "well I never owned slaves"/"well my ancestors never owned slaves" (which he led out with both, and then the typical kyle "woe is me" response); as all of those comments are so immediately toxic that I'd believe that a milquetoast suburbanite Amerikan kyle was spitting them before anyone else. If you don't understand the necessity for my hypervigilance, and the hypervigilance of those like me about matters of seeming white supremacy, then you don't get the thrust of the assignment at all.

Actually, the more I mull this over, I don't get where any part of this meme needed to be responded to if it's the case that he's just straight up Russian with formerly-enslaved Russian ancestors. This is one of those things where if the shoe doesn't fit, you keep it pushing and keep your mouth shut; not crocodile-tear like you're play-acting kylery.

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

He asked what a certain, little known thing on the picture was since it is an incredibly niche thing that is virtually unknown outside the US. After he received an answer, everyone, including you, dogpiled on him like he was some random chud who was defending his families history and their right to slavery. Yes, he did get defensive with pretty poor choices of words, but it was probably overwhelming to get blamed for a lot of things that are completely irrelevant to himself and his family history.

He was just confused, then stated the basic fact of “Oh, my family didn’t own slaves”. Which, granted, is a very common conservative talking point; but in this situation it is funnily enough correct and I believe that he meant that earnestly and innocently. You can’t expect a person outside of the US to know about every modicum of American culture and know how to work around it.

Hyper vigilance is necessary, but it might be best to confirm suspicions first before going on the attack. That’ll just weird people out and alienate those who agree with you. Especially if you know little about the person and that person has been here for years without issue.

[–] relay@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 2 years ago (1 children)

If he's Russian he can be proud of being Russian. They have a cool history and culture in their own right that can be celebrated without undermining other people. Why cling to being white when you can be Russian?

[–] ComradeSalad@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

I agree, but I don’t think that he was clinging to or defending his whiteness, in fact on multiple occasions in the past Shrike has made his displeasure and hatred of being lumped into the “white” umbrella as he does not view himself as white.

If I’m reading why he’s trying to say correctly, I feel like he was more so exasperated of being lumped under the white umbrella with everyone else including Americans, and by extension he is now responsible for history and crimes that his ethnicity doesn’t have a sliver of connection to. That could definitely be extremely frustrating and almost erasing to a degree. It’s just extremely American-centric, and just lumping everyone under the same umbrella because they’re “white” in the American view.

[–] relay@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago

fair enough.

[–] absentthereaper@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

Is that supposed to change anything? I'm physically trying not to pop off right now if only because I recognize your username-- but keeping it a buck? This kind of immediate-defensive, "well I never owned slaves" line, coupled with how quick you peddled it out, leads me to not believe you for a single motherfuckin second; because it sounds just like every other cracker in this godforsaken nation who can have their lineage traced back to slave owners.

You're patently untrustworthy, manifestly unserious, and honestly probably fucking dangerous regarding matters of liberation if you prioritize your papier-maché ego over the lived experience and frank fucking torture that leading a Black life entails; regardless of whether or not your hands or those of your ancestors were washed in that historical fountain of blood. I'd bet my left eye they didn't get involved back then either, the same way your words imply you won't get involved. After all, your folk 'never owned slaves', so it's not your problem in your purview.

tl;dr please, for once in your life, perform some honest self-crit.

[–] muad_dibber@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 children)

The person you're responding to is not a Usonian, and their people have historically been victims of euro-amerikkkan aggression. Please be respectful to others here (rule 3) or we won't hesitate to issue temp bans.

[–] absentthereaper@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 2 years ago

Fine; consider it let go of then.

[+] DeDollarization@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

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[–] CannotSleep420@lemmygrad.ml 14 points 2 years ago

Russians are Schrödinger's crackers: white when one wants to dismiss their suffering from being on the receiving end of imperialism, Asiatic Mongolian hordes when one wants to slaughter them.

[+] BB69@lemmy.world -37 points 2 years ago (2 children)

TIL making jokes about white people makes you a white supremacist

[–] absentthereaper@lemmygrad.ml 25 points 2 years ago

Lookit that, Kyle immediately proving the meme correct smfh

Memes