Electric boats seem like a great idea, especially with all the pollution the really large cruise ships put out. I’m happy to finally see this become mainstream. On the water there’s nothing to really get in the way of solar panels, either, so it makes sense to have them for charging.
this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2023
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There should be no superyachts no matter what powertrain
I disagree, but I also don’t have a problem with people or companies being wealthy enough to make or own them, either.
Disgusting
“Hey! This guy believes people should be allowed to own nice things that they enjoy! Get him!”
Of course people should be allowed to own nice things that they enjoy.
The problem is that these specific people are only able to afford these specific nice things because of economic systems that are based on hundreds of millions of people not being able to afford any nice things in life, ever.
Not that I'm specifically blaming multimillionaires and billionaires for the shortcomings of global economy systems.
They have just benefitted from them in the same way other people are suffering from them.
Does ecosystem carrying capacity overshoot ring a bell? Individual footprint matters, especially if massively oversized.
Sir, we’re talking about boats.
10 MUSD boats made from graphite epoxy composite and quite a few tons of lithium batteries. And the support infrastructure. And the sum of activities on the cruise. Plus other stuff people who buy such trinkets engage in.
There are peer reviewed publications quantifying that, with some surprising numbers in them. The golden billion has an outsized footprint, but the elites have a hockey stick shaped contribution distribution there.
Cool story, bro. You hate boats and the people that enjoy them. We get it.
Those notoriously polluting things in the water?
See communist China for a primer on why it's not a great idea to discourage success.
See fascist America for a primer on why it’s not a good to make success dependent on economic upbringing.
Also if your idea of success is a multi million dollar yacht, than 99.99% of us will never be successful by that metric, so why want to uphold it.
Amazing, a one sentence Gish gallop
They literally have the world's biggest economy and the second most amount of billionaires on the planet behind the US. I don't think monetary success is being discouraged over there like you think it is.
They aren't all that communist anymore.
The sad part is that shit isn't even close to a "super" yatch. It's a very large fancy sailboat. A super yatch is a hole different ball game.
you must be joking right someone tell me i'm not getting the /s
Are you thinking he’s joking because electricity + water = zap zap? Because I’ve got some bad news for you about what boats have been carrying around for a very long time. Some underwater boats, let’s call those subs, even carry explosives that if detonated could destroy a city of 3mil+
Edit: see Morse’s comment below for explanation, makes a lot more sense
No ! it's because $10 million yachts for billionnaires are of course not good for the environment ! It's greenwashing ! "well yeah i'm a billionnaire and i run an ecocidal megacorporation but look : my luxury superyacht is electric !" i'm baffled that people could ever think this is a good way to mitigate the climate crisis
TL;DR electric $10M yachts aren't good for the environment ; not building any yacht at all is the best answer
The best answer between an unachievable ideal and a reasonable compromise is always a reasonable compromise.
I don't think a 10 million dollar yacht, be it electric, diesel or diesel powered, is anywhere near a reasonable compromise
I find them to be excessive as well, but since we have no power over wealthy people being conspicuous consumers the idea that they shouldn’t exist is unfortunately an unattainable ideal.
On the flipside, expensive toys like these often support R&D that eventually reaches more mass market production products.
People talked a lot of smack about the original Telsa Roadster (not getting into the politics of Elon here, what a mess), but the Roadster helped fund the Model S which funded the Model X, 3, and Y and ultimately forced every other vehicle manufacturer to get in the EV game.
When faced with situations out of my control I try to find the best path to beneficial outcomes.
Well, then we're doomed, since reasonable compromises got us where we are.
Ah that makes a lot more sense and I will definitely have to agree with you
No I think the issue is that electric boats will never do as much mileage as a car to offset the carbon in their production. And also that its still doing the exact same thing that is the problem: having massive industrial production for excess. Its entirely about image and pretending to care
Well, I'm not sure I totally agree with this. Pretending to care is painting a diesel yacht green and saying it's now ... green. This is caring enough to change propulsion technologies. You might say it's excess, but that's a matter of opinion and perspective IMO. There are a lot of people who would argue with you that instead of electric cars we should just get rid of cars. Because to do otherwise is just showing off your excess. That more obviously doesn't fly because most people have way more familiarity with cars and see why they would want them compared to yachts. Where does this "we should just not produce this leisure thing" vs "we should improve the way we make and use this leisure thing to be better environmentally" end?
Well my first sentence explains that. Boats will never do enough mileage to offset the carbon in their production. Cars are utilities, we use them as tools. Most of us don't own cars for fun, they are a necessity. Superyachts are luxury toys. Why not convert existing yachts to electric? That would still be a better oprion that building new ones.
There are people who will tell you your car is a luxury toy because you won't move to Manhattan where you don't need a car to live (or a European or Asian city.) I'm just saying one persons necessity is another persons luxury. But OK, how about game consoles - those don't need to be created - do you feel a great shame for having any toy that isn't necessary?
I just think - people will commission yachts. You won't stop them. Given that - is it better to build a new fossil fuel one or an electric one? Because that's the actual choice here.
The last part I think is crucial. These people are going to spend $10 million on a yacht. By getting them to invest in maritime electrics, hopefully we can support the industry to the point that they become viable for industrial uses, and that’s where it becomes interesting. A bunch of people who will never own a boat or work in maritime telling them that it’s useless is just dumb.
Yes, because they definitely pick up the groceries and drive to work and deliver packages in their superyacht. That's why we have parking spaces for superyachts outside chicken farms, because they are excellent utilitarian vehicles for delivering chicken feed.
For at least some people there's probably also an aspect of regulatory future proofing.
Not sure why the downvotes, it's clear as pigshit to me too.
If it's a sailboat, it's supposed not to use motors most of the time anyway. Sailboats use solar panels and wind generators since they became available.
Now, if it's not a real sailboat, but a electric motorboat with a sail just for helping, then it does not deserve the environmental badge. Solar panel power is not significant enough to move a boat, comparing to real sails.
Electric boats are not something new. Pre-nuclear military submarines were electric with batteries charged by diesel generators. There are some industrial boats that use electric motors powered by diesel generators. Same for freight trains which have been using that configuration for many years.
A substantial generator is required for a large electric power boat, no way around it. It may not need to run full time if there's a battery, but it would still need to supply the bulk of consumed electrical power. Not really any environmental benefit. Though there are some other benefits in terms of operating costs.
It's possible to go all electric without a combustion powered generator on a sailboat. That's feasible and you don't need a $10M boat to do it, can be done with any sailboat. Though one thing is a boat must have a reliable motor to be seaworthy. You'd still need a generator backup. In that article they state the featured boat does have one. It would have to support the full electrical load of motor, charging, and accessory so I'd expect it to be pretty hefty.
The title of that article is a fallacy really. Sailboats are environmentally friendly anyway. Doesn't matter if they have an internal combustion engine or electric motor. You only use the motor in situations where you can't sail such as tight channels or doldrums. That's infrequent enough to be negligible. Though I have seen people who own sailboats just motor them around all the time. You gotta wonder why buy a sailboat if you're just going to motor everywhere, but people do it.
I think it's more for the rich to escape the rising ocean levels and riots. A regular yatch will require refueling, where they may come into contact with the poor. An electric yatch can stay out in the ocean indefinitely with solar panels.
Let’s hope they capsize with no one to save them.
The first thing you notice about the boat is the curved solar paneling, which is curved
Did you see those billionaires from Hammerfell? They have curved solar panels.
Curved. Solar panels.
Ya heard with Perd.
Yes, but is it curved?
That actually sounds and looks super cool. Does anyone know how do I become one of them superrich? Alternatively, does any lemmy have $10m to spare? Thanks in advance!
Sufficiency is just as important as efficiency, if not more so.
This is ultimately symbolic of how much electric transport is actually going to bring to the Solutions side of the board. The whole thing is a collective self-reassurance that no, we will never have to give up our personal cars. Cause unlike 10,000 years of ice age-surviving ancestors, we would perish under any such arrangement.
Electric boats sound like a good idea to me couldn't wind, solar and tidal power all be combined. Making me wonder why supertankers, cargoships etc can't be doing some of that.
The issue is energy density. There's a reason why boat tanks are ~6 times larger than a cars gas tank. That's why they're so expensive (plus batteries are much heavier).
If electric were economical the world's shipping companies would have switched over. The logistics industry doesn't care about whether or not climate change is real, they just want to move stuff as cheaply as possible
Regular sailboats have very low fuel consumption. Like 30HP motors used only when not possible to put the sails. Here it is not a sailboat, this is a luxury appartement on water. The carbon footprint will never be neutralized.
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