politics

I lost the last bit of patriotism I had left after the Sandy Hook massacres & all our elected officials did jack shit. Murica is only #1 in white collar crime these days. Our politicians are paid off shills. Wall St is run by the absolute worst scum of the earth bc they know we do nothing to them no matter how many laws they break. SCOTUS is fucking worthless & the country is comprised of about ~35% of the world’s stupidest people.

We need a revolution. That is the ONLY solution at this point but because of all the stupid, we’d much rather fight amongst ourselves than get off our lazy butts and fight the real evils in this world. It’s sad times but I do hope I live long enough to watch it all burn down.

Ribbit

Does not help the movement most inclined to wrap themselves in a flag just stormed the capital.

Nationalism is nothing to be proud of.

Many young Americans lack experience outside the country, meaning they have a warped, likely from the internet, sense of what's right and wrong when compared to other parts of the world.

I'm proud to be an American, in the sense that I'd rather be here than many other parts of the world, even though I recognize there are issues requiring more attention and/or progress. Perhaps it helps that I view things under my own objective lens, gaining first hand experience in many cases, rather than sitting behind a screen and amping up my ignorance.

It's OK to disagree with me of course. Everyone has their reasons, whether pro or anti, but I'd personally question how much experience people younger than myself have in other parts of the world. Many Americans take things for granted with little understanding of how good they have it. Obviously not always the case, but traveling the world is eye opening and no amount of internet research can substitute those experiences.

Extremely proud is a completely different category than "proud". Although I think the title still rings true without the "extremely" quantifier. Even those of us who are older and were proud of what our country represented when we were younger have seen through the lies and are pretty damned disappointed.

This seems like a pretty nebulous concept with a lot of wiggle room for interpretation.

Like, am I proud of having been born in the specific place I was and having the parents that I do? I ain't had shit to do with that. I'm American by accident. I'm no more proud of being American than I am of being 5'10": it's just a box I fit into, honestly somewhat uncomfortably. I'm proud of the work I do and the achievements I've... achieved, but nothing I've done would be impossible anywhere else. If anything, there are parts of the world where what I've achieved would have been easier to do and where my preferred lifestyle is more widely accepted (for context, this refers to that I don't like cars, don't own or want to own one, and choose to get around by bike and transit instead) (a friend of my dad's recently told him that I "need a European girlfriend" because "American women don't understand guys like him:" for the record, I've never met this woman).

Anyway, pointless rambling aside, America is just one country out of hundreds in the world, and I don't see why I should feel all nationalistic about having been born in it.

Like one from abroad old enough to remember the old idea of America as something to aspire to:

It's kind of like losing your older brother to a crippling drug addiction (almost literally). You know that he wasn't always perfect, but he was always there. Nowadays you are never sure how he will act, sometimes showing signs of how he used to be, but more often bring a disappointment.

Well, gee, I wonder why. Could it be that it's been a shitstorm of fuckery their entire lives? Nah, that can't be it....

I'm in the middle age bracket there and completely agree with them as do most of my similar aged peers.

no shit

They shouldn't be. It's a shit country

Who could blame them?

When I graduated college in the 2008 I read Richard Rorty's "Achieving Our Country" as we entered the recession and were dealing with the shame of Guantanamo, Iraq, and Bush era generally. During this time we also started to experience the rise of identity politics. I was glad I read this, because it helped me avoid the pitfall's of what Rorty criticized as the "New Left" iirc. This is contrast with the "Old Left" "Progressive Left" he identified it. The New Left focused on America's shame from which there is no redemption. The New Left equates patriotism with John Wayne style Chauvinism, American Exceptionalism, and belligerence. With identity politics, it seems even worsened that the new left cares about ideological purity and sin which prevents coalition type movements.

The old left Rorty championed takes a different view. For him, patriotism or love and pride of country that is abandoned by the new left is a harm to the country. The analogy he makes is that similar to how self love and self respect is a necessary condition for an individual to self improve themselves, love of country and national pride are a necessary condition to the betterment of a nation. The old left was more able to balance or reflect on criticism and shameful acts in our nations history, but through love of country and national pride work to improve it. The old left was also more willing to tolerate and cooperate with groups that did not have 100% alignment on views or experiences. The blue collar workers put there flesh and bones on the lines during strikes, but alliance with elites is what made these strikes publicized in the news and move the needle at a national policy and political conversation.

It's a shame that so many young people are finding it hard to balance that love of country with critical national self reflection. People I have very similar political views gawk or chastise me when I describe my sense of pride or love for the US. It's strange how simply loving one's country or taking pride in it is taboo in young leftist folks today, and that makes me somewhat fearful of the future.

Paywall likely, but this Atlantic article does a decent job capturing the gist of the book: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/advice-for-the-left-on-achieving-a-more-perfect-union/531054/

This might be a little controvercial in american politics community (not so much under europeans but even here it kind of is) but there is no right way to be proud of the place you are born in! You can be proud of partular parts of your system, your society or similar but not the location, that's always fucking stupid!