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My Opinion: NewPipe, Piped, Invidious, etc's days are numbered. (lemmy.ml)

submitted 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) by AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml to c/technology@lemmy.world

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With Reddit shutting down its API setting a precedent in the corporate tech world (and Reddit was a major outlier in that a ton of their users are technical minded and support third party clients, YouTube does not have that kind of userbase and will not get backlash for it), Twitter doing whatever the fuck they're doing, and Google already hellbent on destroying ad blockers, the days of Newpipe, Invidious, and Freetube are numbered. Wouldn't be surprised if they implement Netflix level DRM tomorrow that makes alt clients impossible. I say savour your alt clients while you can guys, you won't be able to soon.

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[-] davidgro@lemmy.world 198 points 11 months ago

NewPipe at least already doesn't use the API, it scrapes the website.

... Which it just occurred to me might be one of the reasons Google is pushing that web integrity thing. Dang.

[-] foggy@lemmy.world 43 points 11 months ago

All the web integrity thing would do is force them to use a specific client when accessing YouTube to scrape their site.

Putting shit out on your publicly accessible website enables all who access it to download anything you make available there.

This is just regular cat and mouse.

If my YouTube experience goes away, my hobbies will get some tlc. My reddit experience barely faltered with my transition to Lemmy

We've been through all of this before and we'll go through all of it again.

[-] Corngood@lemmy.ml 17 points 11 months ago

All the web integrity thing would do is force them to use a specific client when accessing YouTube to scrape their site.

The problem is none of the attested browsers will let you to use them in this way.

We already have DRM for video on the web. I believe it would be a similar problem to getting WideVine L1 content from e.g. Netflix in an open source app.

[-] foggy@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Ask me why I invested in Vimeo.

But seriously, it will just make competitors thrive.

I'll pay for a nebula subscription before I sit through a single YouTube ad.

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[-] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 11 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yep... Bummer, but completely in character and expected.

[-] StewartGilligan@lemmy.world 56 points 11 months ago

Invidious doesn't use YouTube's API. It merely requests content from YouTube either directly or through a proxy. So, I don't think it'll disappear forever unless the developers stop working on it. It's probably gonna be a game of cat and mouse where YouTube figures out how to break Invidious, and the devs keep finding a workaround.

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[+] PrivateOnions@lemmy.world 52 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

[deleted]

[-] pumpsnabben@sopuli.xyz 17 points 11 months ago

The more we use Odysee the more will it seem like a valid alternative.

Personally I watch videos from the creators that have mirrored their YT channel to Odysee.

[-] jet@hackertalks.com 27 points 11 months ago

I don't think there's anything fundamentally different about Odyssey than YouTube. They're both private companies. Odyssey is just in a growth phase. And YouTube is in Post Monopoly face. If Odyssey becomes very popular I see them acting exactly like YouTube acts.

[-] anamethatisnt@lemmy.world 6 points 11 months ago

Switching to the growth phase companies is one of the few options we have though.
I'm sure you are right in that after a few years of success the next private company will too enter the money grabbing phase.
That will open the market up for yet a new contender still in the growth phase.
Round and round we go.

[-] pumpsnabben@sopuli.xyz 6 points 11 months ago

It's open source and decentralized, will hopefully make a difference.

[-] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 15 points 11 months ago

Frankly, I've had it with band-aid solutions like alt clients. Gonna say it now: if you claim to be a FLOSS/open web supporting creator and you're still exclusively using YouTube, you obviously value revenue over FLOSS or open web. Yes I'm gatekeeping FLOSS/open web with that statement, but corporate tech is actively trying to destroy both, and if you side with them, why shouldn't you be called out for it? Don't have to quit YouTube IMO, but at least mirror on Peertube if you care.

[-] jeena@jemmy.jeena.net 17 points 11 months ago

I'm subscribed to 94 channels on PeerTube and get barely one new video to watch every 2 days. This is both a problem that the people just don't post anything but also that for some reason new videos just don't show up even if I subscribe to them, that especially happens with TILvids channels for some reason.

Also here is the very short list of PeerTube instances I found which are not about conspiracy theories or nazi shit:

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[-] linuxisfun@lemmy.world 13 points 11 months ago

I suggest subscribing to YouTube via RSS (yes, YouTube still has an RSS feed for channels and playlists). I've been doing this for years and it works great. You can use your RSS reader or an add-on like Livemarks to discover the feed.

If you subscribe via RSS, you can then easily substitute the feed URL for any other platform, if the creator happens to upload their content to platforms other than YouTube.

Even though the videos are hosted on different platforms, you still have a single feed in a single location with all new videos thanks to RSS. You're also able to manage a "watch later" list with your RSS reader.

[-] d3Xt3r@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Vimeo is still around, and has a ton of content. It's still no match for YouTube of course, but if Google pull the same shit like Reddit did, then I'd imagine a decent chunk of creators would migrate to Vimeo.

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[-] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 48 points 11 months ago

all of these are scrapers, so they will work unless YouTube gets rid of its web version

[-] kenbw2@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

Or if Google implements some kind of feature that requires your browser to vouch that it's not gonna play shenanigans with the page.

Nah, nobody would be that crazy.

[-] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 5 points 11 months ago

Fair.

[-] phoneymouse@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

Would this new thing they’re doing to chrome stop it?

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[-] MeowdyPardner@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

I think they mean something like widevine a la Netflix. Granted there are bypasses for some levels, but that could be a problem imo, iiuc that's why there aren't any alternate frontends for Netflix or HBO. I think that would also potentially mean issues playing YouTube in chromium or firefox on Linux if they used L1 (not sure what the current state of widevine on Linux is, last time I had Netflix I couldn't watch on Linux and had to use my phone or Chromecast)

[-] madcow@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago

Or until they implement a trust model that denies access to uncertified user-agents?

[-] JasSmith@kbin.social 21 points 11 months ago

Google isn't going to kill YouTube's API any time soon. It's how billions of videos are viewable in apps and pages across the internet. They make far more money on that than any lost revenue by people using third party apps. Shutting down API access would be one of the most impactful events to the internet in history. Major lost viewership and advertising revenue coupled with extreme consumer backlash. Most devastating would be developer backlash, as they would all need to scramble to find alternatives.

[-] CustodialTeapot@lemmy.world 20 points 11 months ago

Oh, thought this was an article with facts and figures, no someone's doomsaying and fear mongering....

Many YouTube's third party clients don't use an API and having a public API with built in ads is a gold mine that many of YouTube's embeds rely on for revenue. Doubt they'll destroy that anytime soon.

Along with that, many of YouTube's top creators are already looking for alternatives, floatplane, nebula etc... It just takes a mass exodus to kick start them. And you bet Google is aware of that.

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[-] Thrubst@lemmyjapan.com 16 points 11 months ago

Was talking to a friend who is a senior tech dude about the YT viewing habits of our kids. Asked if he had any recommendations for alt clients and he said… just pay for YT premium 🙃

[-] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 24 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

"Don't want your kids seeing ads that are absolutely not for kids? Easy! Just pay us!"

Seriously it's so hypocritical that they demonetize swearing yet show gambling, alcohol, and even the occasional barely-not-porn sexualized ad without a second thought.

[-] Screwthehole@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

It's not hypocrisy, it's for $. $ means it's not hypocrisy. Haven't you been paying attention?

[-] IDew@lemm.ee 5 points 11 months ago

Yeah because I would love to pay for attention

[-] AgreeableLandscape@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago

pay for attention

Isn't that basically what their "superchat" feature in YouTube live is? Pay money to force the host to read your comment? IDK I've never used it and don't intend to.

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[-] sanpo@sopuli.xyz 24 points 11 months ago

To be fair, the guy just probably didn't want to become your tech support for life. :P

If you care, you can try this, assuming you meant clients for TV: https://github.com/yuliskov/SmartTubeNext

[-] Darkhoof@lemmy.world 4 points 11 months ago

I use this in my TV and it is amazing. But I won't advertise it anywhere because I'm afraid Google will just come up with a way to kill it.

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[-] mister_monster@monero.town 11 points 11 months ago

As long as youtube has RSS, you can still get videos.

I built this https://codeberg.org/mister_monster/YouTube2Peertube many years ago to help people resolve these problems.

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[-] Waitwuhtt@lemmy.world 10 points 11 months ago

I welcome the rise of their replacements.

[-] jfx@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 11 months ago

Well there's Kodi's Netflix interface, looks pretty alternative to me: https://github.com/CastagnaIT/plugin.video.netflix

There's always a way

[-] adibis@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

You can't save anything unless there's a YouTube competitor. Google can do whatever it wants.

[-] Hamartiogonic@sopuli.xyz 6 points 11 months ago

Nah, we’ll just switch to webscraping if APIs get locked behind a paywall. Let’s see how those sites handle it when millions of people are using a scraping based client in the future. I can imagine it feeling a lot like being the victim a relentless ddos attack.

[-] scarilog@lemmy.world 11 points 11 months ago

This is exactly what the proposed Web Integrity API seeks to prevent. That's what makes it terrifying.

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[-] gobbling871@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

They successfully went after Vanced 2 years ago so it's shouldn't be too far fetched for them.

[-] Zetaphor@zemmy.cc 20 points 11 months ago

And yet here I am using Revanced, which is even better than Vanced was

https://revanced.app/

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[-] nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 7 points 11 months ago

it's a common theory that the only reason they went after Vanced is because the Vanced team tried to monetize the mod by introducing NFTs

[-] TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world 5 points 11 months ago

Many people in modding and fan communities convince themselves that companies only go after projects if they try to make money, but we also see that happening with free projects all the time, if they get enough attention.

Seeing that Google is already sending warnings to people who try to watch YouTube with adblockers, I don't think that's what made the difference.

[-] redditReallySucks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 months ago

They went after vanced because they made money (they tried selling nfts) from from modifying google's proprietary code. NewPipe team wrote everything themselves and dont make money from google code (they probably make no money at all)

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this post was submitted on 27 Jul 2023

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