this post was submitted on 13 Sep 2024
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[–] xantoxis@lemmy.world 131 points 5 days ago (7 children)

Folks, the docker runtime is open source, and not even the only one of its kind. They won't charge for that. If they tried to make it closed source, everyone would just laugh and switch to one of several completely free alternatives. They charge for hosting images, build time on their build servers, and various "premium" developer tools you don't need. In fact, you need none of this, you can do all of it yourself on whatever hardware you deem to be good enough. There are also many other hosted alternatives out there.

Docker thinks they have a monopoly, for some reason. If you use the technology, you are probably already aware that they don't.

[–] hperrin@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago

If they tried to close source it, someone would just fork it.

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[–] art@lemmy.world 32 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Hot take: Good for them.

This will have zero impact on 99% of independent developers. Most small companies can move to an alternative or roll their own infrastructure. This will only really impact large corporations. I'm all for corporation-on-corporation violence. Let them fight.

[–] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 7 points 4 days ago

This is a different take on the VMscare broadcom purchase.

The real losers here are SoHos where it is too pricy to migrate and also too pricy not to. I don't know whether that's in your 1% or 99% but:

  • devs don't develop for infrastructure their customers don't use. It's as dead as LKC, then.
  • big customers have deprecated their VMware infra and are only spending on replacement products, and if they do the same for docker the company will suffer in a year.

If docker doesn't have the gov/mil revenue, are we prepared for the company shedding projects and people as it shrinks?

Remember: when tech elephants fight, it's we the grass who suffers.

[–] KellysNokia@lemmy.world 68 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Wait...y'all were paying for Docker?

[–] lepinkainen@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago (1 children)

Corp accounts, Docker Desktop isn’t free for non-personal use

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[–] fuzzy_feeling@programming.dev 152 points 5 days ago (1 children)

the enshittification begins...

[–] LedgeDrop@lemm.ee 122 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Begins?!? Docker Inc was waist deep in enshittification the moment they started rate limiting docker hub, which was nearly 3 or 4 years ago.

This is just another step towards the deep end. Companies that could easily move away from docker hub, did so years ago. The companies that remain struggle to leave and will continue to pay.

[–] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 25 points 5 days ago (2 children)

When that happened our DevOps teams migrated all our prod k8's to podman, with zero issues. Docker who?

[–] sudneo@lemm.ee 21 points 5 days ago (5 children)

Why would anybody use podman for k8s...containerd is the default for years.

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[–] gencha@lemm.ee 42 points 4 days ago (4 children)

Their entire offering is such a joke. I'm forced to use Docker Desktop for work, as we're on Windows. Every time that piece of shit gets updated, it's more useless garbage. Endless security snake oil features. Their installer even messes with your WSL home directory. They literally fuck with your AWS and Azure credentials to make it more "convenient" for you to use their cloud integrations. When they implemented that, they just deleted my AWS profile from my home directory, because they felt it should instead be a symlink to my Windows home directory. These people are not to be trusted with elevated privileges on your system. They actively abuse the privilege.

The only reason they exist is that they are holding the majority of images hostage on their registry. Their customers are similarly being held hostage, because they started to use Docker on Windows desktops and are now locked in. Nobody gives a shit about any of their benefits. Free technology and hosting was their setup, now they let everyone bleed who got caught. Prices will rise until they find their sweet spot. Thanks for the tech. Now die already.

[–] prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

I actually thought this headline was a joke (i.e. adding 80% of 0 to 0 equals 0), until I clicked the link to see that people actually pay for Docker? I guess this is for Enterprise?

I have never really had much use for it, so never have installed it, but it seems like everyone here uses Docker, which is surprising given the cost and what you just said.

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[–] Evoliddaw@lemmy.ca 7 points 4 days ago

This speaks to my soul so much. I started at a non profit 2 years ago and it pains me how much the company spends on Oracle and docker now and no one does anything about it. So much of our infrastructure is built to rely on these things that we can't just do without them when they do crazy shit like this. And Oracle and docker can afford to do this as long as a few cash cows hang on like us. Hostage is the worst and best description.

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[–] Telodzrum@lemmy.world 28 points 4 days ago (1 children)
[–] turkelton@lemmy.world 8 points 4 days ago (3 children)

How is the transition from docker to podman? I'm using two compose scripts and like 10 containers each. And portainer to comfortably restart stuff on the fly

[–] Telodzrum@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

I can only provide my experience; it was a drop-in replacement. I have 7 services running and 3 db containers. I was able to migrate using the Podman official instructions without issue.

[–] Grass@sh.itjust.works 4 points 4 days ago

from what I can gather its currently recommended to use quadlets to generate systemd units to achieve what compose was doing. podman compose is a thing but IIRC I didn't find that was straight drop in and I had to change the syntax or formatting a bit for it to work and from the brief testing I have put in quadlets seems less hassle, but if you use a non systemd distro then I don't know.

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[–] ExperiencedWinter@lemmy.world 95 points 5 days ago (8 children)

Anyone looking for a free drop in replacement, I've been using Rancher Desktop without any issues https://rancherdesktop.io/

[–] lostinasea@lemmy.world 77 points 5 days ago (2 children)

I've been using podman desktop (https://podman-desktop.io/) which is also free. I've never heard of rancher desktop so I'll have to give that a look!

[–] mosiacmango@lemm.ee 18 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

Rancher is owned by Suse, which is mainly a solid steward in the community.

They also have k8 frontend called Harvestor. It can run VMs directly, which is nice.

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[–] SirAramis@lemmy.ca 18 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I second Podman. I’ve been using it recently and find it to be pretty good!

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[–] Shimitar@feddit.it 52 points 5 days ago (5 children)

Podman guys... Podman All the way...

[–] OpenPassageways@lemmy.zip 16 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I don't think you even need Docker licenses to run Linux containers, but unfortunately I need to deal with this because I have some legacy software running in windows containers.

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[–] RmDebArc_5@sh.itjust.works 61 points 5 days ago (7 children)

I thought docker was FOSS? What exactly are they charging you for?

[–] thorisalaptop@lemmy.world 100 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (3 children)

Docker Engine (which is the core of what people think of as “Docker”) is FOSS. Docker Desktop (which most people rely on for local development) is free for individuals but I believe the license says companies over a certain size are required to pay.

And on top of that the paid plans also come with support, which large businesses frequently require, and private repositories on docker’s image repository.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 41 points 5 days ago (1 children)

This is the correct response.

At my job we've been asked to remove Docker desktop unless it is absolutely necessary for a client project.

I've just been using Docker through command line via WSL and that's good enough for me.

[–] kameecoding@lemmy.world 13 points 5 days ago (5 children)

I don't see any use for Docker Desktop, you can see the running containers in a gui instead of just typing docker ps in a terminal, damn what a fucking awesome and needed thing, it's gonna totally come in handy when I do deployments through the terminal and I didn't learn the commands

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[–] MigratingtoLemmy@lemmy.world 14 points 5 days ago (3 children)

I am baffled as to why people want a GUI for Docker, of all things

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[–] AreaKode@lemmy.world 24 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Support. If your a business, you pay to keep uptime high. This is unnecessary for most people.

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[–] cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 15 points 4 days ago (3 children)

you didn't need anything like docker with web 1.0; you just needed cuteftp and a text editor.

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[–] beerclue@lemmy.world 30 points 5 days ago (7 children)

Are You guys really pulling more than 40 images per hour? Isn't the free one enough?

[–] pop@lemmy.ml 14 points 4 days ago

On Lemmy, it's a sin to make money off your work, especially if it is opensource core projects providing paid infrastructure/support. You can only ask for donations and/or quit. No in-between.

[–] gencha@lemm.ee 9 points 4 days ago (2 children)

A single malfunctioning service that restarts in a loop can exhaust the limit near instantly. And now you can't bring up any of your services, because you're blocked.

I've been there plenty of times. If you have to rely on docker.io, you better pay up. Running your own NexusRM or Harbor to proxy it can drastically improve your situation though.

Docker is a pile of shit. Steer clear entirely of any of their offerings if possible.

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[–] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 10 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Even at work we don't pull that many, and we have dozens of developers.

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[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 9 points 4 days ago

Enshitification is a very, very real thing. GitLab did something similar with raising pricing by 5x a few years back.

[–] heavy@sh.itjust.works 19 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Oh shit, what would I do without..... Scout Analysis?

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[–] ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 9 points 5 days ago (3 children)

Are there any decent alternatives to docker hub for pushing images if I'm just a hobbyist?

[–] areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 21 points 5 days ago

Github has a container register you can use.

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[–] randon31415@lemmy.world 10 points 5 days ago (4 children)

Is this the program that open source people use to install all the random depencies that their program needs to work? The one that people tell me to use when I complain about git bash pico sudo pytorch Install commands?

Or did another company copy their name?

[–] gsfraley@lemmy.world 29 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (1 children)

I mean, they're one implementor of about 10 that use the same container standards. It sucks that they were first so their name is now synonymous with containers a la Kleenex, but the technology itself is standard, very open and ubiquitous, and a huge step forward in simplifying deployments and development lifecycles that would otherwise be too complex to reasonably handle.

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