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submitted 11 months ago by NightOwl@lemm.ee to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml
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[-] Addfwyn@lemmy.ml 33 points 11 months ago

The South's current government is ridiculously conservative. Rolling back labour laws and women's rights were pillars of their election run. They'll do whatever the US tells them to. It shouldn't come as a surprise that peaceful diplomacy is not at the forefront of their mind.

It's honestly pretty cyclical, they bounce back and forth between more diplomatic minded leadership and more warhungry. They are much more in the antagonistic phase of their cycle right now.

[-] aehnh@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago

Weird how the "unstable dictatorship" is the more consistent one in this relationship

[-] deegeese@sopuli.xyz 23 points 11 months ago

There’s no point in negotiating with a dictator whose primary goal is to remain in power. A peaceful end to the conflict means the death of Kim at the hands of the oppressed.

This is like asking a kidnapper to kindly release the hostages or we will ask again later.

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 22 points 11 months ago

incredible that you don't even realize just how deranged that comment is

[-] lntl@lemmy.ml 14 points 11 months ago

Glad you're not in charge. Currently, there is tension between Korean allies which unfortunately means there will be no peace for the Korean people.

I think with time, Korea can be peacefully reunified. It may not be in my lifetime, but one day I believe it will happen. As time move forward, new events and opportunites arise that may present the chance for reunification.

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 9 points 11 months ago

The problem with North Korea is that its entire cultural identity is built on resisting American aggression. Without having an enemy to fight, what is the reason for the country going on? Why would the people of North Korea tolerate the current government other than to resist invasion?

The North Korean regime needs conflict. It doesn't need war, but it needs conflict. Kim could have gotten a sweetheart deal from Trump to end the war and never took it. Why? Because getting rid of the "American threat" also gets rid of North Korea's legitimacy.

[-] Addfwyn@lemmy.ml 11 points 11 months ago

Why would the people of North Korea tolerate the current government other than to resist invasion?

The Kim family has done a lot for the people in the DPRK, and is generally very well liked. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but a lot of the problems stem not from the current DPRK leadership but the international (read: US) sanctions placed on them. Compared to the hypercapitalist hellscape of SK, the work-life balance in the DPRK seems downright utopian. Prior to the US invasion, the Korean peninsula was fairly unified in their support of socialism.

The people would certainly welcome peace, I just don't know how that is possible while the threat of the USA looms. People like to portray them as an aggressive country, but they have never done anything to another coountry except threaten to defend themselves.

[-] SeaJ@lemm.ee 8 points 11 months ago
[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 5 points 11 months ago

Is it well liked? Or is it only well liked because the country is doing "the best that it can" against the USA? And even then, is it actually well liked or only liked enough to keep the BoAn from paying too much attention to them?

And I didn't mention the people of North Korea, I mentioned its government. The North Korean government needs conflict with the USA to justify itself.

[-] Addfwyn@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago

Obviously anecdotal, but from the people I spoke to in the DPRK, generally very well liked. And no, I did not have government minders making sure they said "the right thing". Several programs were quite popular, particularly housing programs. There was a big push for community-based activities during my stay, even smaller towns had community centers where people could go after work to learn new skills or continuing education. The university I was based out of was pretty international as well, but even there people didn't spend that much time thinking about the US, nor did they have a particularly negative view of the average American citizen. More curious than hostile.

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 4 points 11 months ago

How are you sure you didn't have government minders watching what others said?

What program were you in that took you on a tour of North Korea?

[-] Addfwyn@lemmy.ml 9 points 11 months ago

I was there in for several months in graduate school doing research for my thesis, wasn't part of a tour. Based out of Kim Il Sung university at the time. I spent about a year in South Korea as well prior. Since I wasn't on a formal tour, I was left to my own devices a lot of the time unless I needed a guide to help me get access somewhere.

Technically yes, every rural farming village could have been secretly micced with hidden cameras on the off chance that a foreigner was going to stop by, but that seems unlikely. This was a little over ten years ago so cell phones (which would be a fairly common metric of government surviellence) were not as prevalent in the DPRK yet as they are now, so a lot of people weren't carrying one. I was a no-name graduate student, not a well-known diplomat, I don't think the government was particularly invested in spending large sums of money tracking me. So yes, technically they COULD have, but just as much as any other state could have.

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[-] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 8 points 11 months ago

You literally described the US, it is funny how it is always reflection.

[-] psilocybin@discuss.tchncs.de 6 points 11 months ago

Also take note of the arrogance of the claim to know and declare another nations complete cultural identity.

To give them a chance I have asked them to clarify but I am pretty sure they haven't lived in the DPRK

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 5 points 11 months ago

How is the USA defined by resisting North Korea?

[-] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago

Replace NK with US and American Threat with any movement or government that tries to be sovereign.

[-] psilocybin@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The problem with North Korea is that its entire cultural identity is built on resisting American aggression

I am curious: Why do you feel you can confidently speak on the exact nature of another nations cultural identity? Let alone reduce it in this way?

Not sure if you understand how arrogant your statement is, but you have to realize that you have 0 idea of the cultural identity of the people in the DPRK.

Corporate news isn't interested in showing you anything but the conflict don't make the mistake of letting that shape your perception. The first step is realizing your ignorance

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 5 points 11 months ago

I didn't say people, I said government. Why do people conflating the two?

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[-] fred@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago

Two Kims have already died and nothing changed. The current one is Swiss educated, likes NBA, and speaks at least a little English. If there was a hope that a change of dictator was going to do anything, he was it.

[-] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 15 points 11 months ago

Koreans on both sides of the DMZ have more in common than they do differences. Unfortunately the comprador regime in the south and their handlers in Washington can't have anyone noticing that.

[-] Zyansheep@lemmy.ml 3 points 11 months ago

How does one even count similarities and differences? What does it even mean to say there are more of one than the other?

[-] knfrmity@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 11 months ago

Of all the semantic hair splitting distractions, that's what you go for?

Go study philosophy or something. I'll wait for something substantive.

[-] Kes@lemmy.blahaj.zone 12 points 11 months ago

Unfortunately the current situation appeases the global powers the most. China and Russia will not stand to have a US allied united Korea so close to Beijing and Vladivostok, which means a united Korea is a neutral, non US aligned Korea, which the US does not want. Having North Korea be a buffer state between China/Russia and the US aligned South Korea is the most stable option, and as a result North Korea knows that it can do whatever it wants and still be propped up by Beijing, just as it has since the Korean war

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 11 points 11 months ago

On the other hand, given how over extended US finds itself now with its proxy war in Ukraine, the vassal regime in the south could find support lacking going forward. Given the hellish conditions people experience under this regime, it's entirely possible that it could fall in not too distant future allowing for reunification.

[-] iknt@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago

From the article

“If you have enough money, South Korea is a great place to live. But if you don’t . . .” she trails off.

Just work harder some people will say.

Quoting George Carlin

"Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice . . . you don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying . . . lobbying, to get what they want . . . Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want . . . they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that . . . that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin' years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it . . . they’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this fuckin' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people . . . white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means . . . continue to elect these rich removed who don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you . . . they don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all . . . at all . . . at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it . . .”

[-] yogthos@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago

Also a great quote from the director of Parasite

The Korean director Bong Joon Ho, when asked about why Parasite had resonated so deeply, with so many across the world, replied "there is no borderline between countries now because we all live in the same country, it’s called capitalism." Parasite is a film that speaks to the class inequalities, societal structures, and violence that underpins capitalism. The same is felt by many, across our world. Capitalism is, in short, a global moral, political, and ecological global disaster. One that is shared across borders and nations.

https://www.versobooks.com/en-ca/blogs/news/5199-we-all-live-in-a-country-called-capitalism

[-] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 11 months ago

Don't even know why that was even an option, anyway. NK isn't ever going to cooperate with its "enemies" and will just continue to indoctrinate its population with propaganda.

The only solution is a military invasion of NK. Always has been.

[-] Addfwyn@lemmy.ml 18 points 11 months ago

will just continue to indoctrinate its population with propaganda.

Oh yes, definitely that doesn't happen in any of those "civilized" western countries right? Nobody making up things like "North Koreans have no word for love" or "We push trains to work every day".

[-] BartsBigBugBag@lemmy.tf 14 points 11 months ago

Worked out so well last time, right?

[-] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 13 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)
[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The only solution is a military invasion of NK. Always has been.

The US always could have not disrupted the planned elections and installed a military dictatorship that kept a lot of the Japanese colonial officers around and started mass killing Koreans. Then the democratic korea wouldn't have had to try to liberate their country.

[-] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 11 months ago

Could've, would've, should've. The US has had a long and sordid history of downright fucked-up foreign policy decisions.

But, bitching about it doesn't really change the current situation. NK has a dictatorship with a enough military power that it still requires a decent army to overrun. Kim isn't going to listen to any diplomacy, except when he can trick some diplomat to give him more power or image-building. At best, China might be able to cut off its funding and topple Kim's little empire, but China has no interest in that.

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 10 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Your perspective being shared by bloodthirsty us officials is why the drpk has and is justified in having nukes

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[-] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 8 points 11 months ago

Jesus. And people think I exaggerate when I call the West a death cult

[-] patchymoose@lemmy.ml 6 points 11 months ago

Well yes, you are definitely exaggerating if you are suggesting that half the planet is a 'death cult'. Maybe if you want to say that the foreign policy establishment in certain countries is, then it would be a more reasonable statement.

I don't think that "the West" is even a useful term.

[-] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 11 months ago

half the planet

I think you overestimate your importance, try 14% of the planet instead.

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[-] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 11 months ago

Lol, news flash. Western white people are not half the planet. Never have been. They are a significant minority.

You don't get to decide if the West is a useful term. You have to listen to the global majority on that. And they demonstrate it's utility by using it.

The foreign policy establishment is tiny. There are millions of people screaming at their TVs, lynching black people, shooting protestors, buying guns, watching and producing military propaganda movies, watching and producing TV shows about hero white people killing Asiatic hordes, celebrating the European genocide against indigenous people, calling water protectors terrorists, baying for the blood of Iranians, Russians, Chinese... Millions who thinks dropping nukes on population centers was the best course of action. That vacation in Vietnam and marvel at how backwards they are and don't think Kissinger is that bad.

It's not like you and your family and friends and countrymen are just normal people who weren't raised for 20 years on genocidal indoctrination by your parents, grandparents, teachers, books, TVs, movies, politicians, historians, memorials, and religions. You just don't think you were.

It's not the foreign policy establishment. It's the entire European project for the last 600 years. You don't get out of it by just saying "it's only the power elite". If the US had a popular revolt, I guarantee you that it would result in major mass killings of the marginalized, because despite your fantasy, the majority of Americans are part of the death cult.

[-] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 5 points 11 months ago

Do you like the Imperial North better?

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[-] lntl@lemmy.ml 7 points 11 months ago

They have nukes, my lemon. This has never be the solution.

[-] psilocybin@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 11 months ago

Okay seriously guys! Who let John Bolton join lemmy?

[-] ShadowPouncer@kbin.social 6 points 11 months ago

I would argue that we are, as a planetary civilization, almost past the point where a war of that sort is even possible.

On the other hand, if China were to ever shun NK, I would bet that their government would likely collapse in less than a decade.

Sadly, China has a ton of reasons to want to prevent that, one of the bigger ones being the border with NK where many, many refugees would try to cross into China.

I could however see, someday, China agreeing to a massive backroom deal on a scale that would be unprecedented:

China abruptly works to ensure a complete collapse of the NK government, without any NK nuclear weapons either coming into play or any NK nuclear weapons going missing (except to China itself, if it wants them).

And SK along with a good chunk of the Western world agrees to immediately conduct one of the largest humanitarian missions in history, to ensure that nobody is fleeing NK into China unless they have tons of assets and they want to avoid repercussions for their actions.

There are, sadly, a lot of reasons why China wouldn't want the western powers capable of pulling that off to have control of territory that close to China though.

SK would be their safest bet, but SK doesn't have the resources to pull of that kind of a humanitarian effort.

And the chances that someone like the US wouldn't take the chance to plop a military base in what is currently NK seems awfully slim.

[-] KrimsonBun@lemmy.ml 4 points 11 months ago

No war but class war. Death to all forms of government.

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[-] GFGJewbacca@ag.batlord.org 4 points 11 months ago
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this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
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