this post was submitted on 23 Oct 2024
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[โ€“] BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

The problem is both. Certain people will always try to exploit regardless of the intent of the system. The problem then isn't that there are people that exploit. We need to accept that those people will always exist because it's just a part of humanity. We evolved to have a spectrum of personalities in our groups. And, we can't get rid of them because they have every right to exists like everyone else. I think the best solution is to create system accepting who we are as a species that prevents the ability for anyone to hoard massive amounts of wealth and power.

Democratize everything. Democratize the government, democratize the economy, democratize neighborhoods, democratize work places, democratize the world. Spread power equally amongst everyone. No one should be powerful enough to control the government. No one should be wealthy enough to control the economy. And, if we experience democracy in our local groups with which we have direct interactions on a regular basis, democracy becomes a universal expectation. We learn how it works through experiential lessons everyday. We learn what it feels like, we learn its strengths, and we learn its weaknesses. Universal democracy is the solution because it prevents the ability for anyone person to accumulate power and control over others.

The downside is that democracy is slow and disorganized. It cannot compete against a unified group with a strong leader because it's not as quick and decisive. Thus, to have democracy that is universal across all system levels, it must be universal across all of humanity as well. One place cant be democratic while another is not. Democracy is all-or-none, baby ๐Ÿ˜˜

I'm not really into arguing any of your points but I remember watching some commune reality TV show. They decided everything by counsel it was interesting, not exactly fair though.

At some point you must accept that there is no silver bullet and start working with the tools you have available. At least, let others use those tools, responsibly.

[โ€“] MehBlah@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago
[โ€“] oo1@lemmings.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Some people are always looking for a free ride. Amassing power/influence/status/assets is usually a way to do that - basically get others to do the hard work and take 5/10/50% of the credit. This appllies under all systems due, most probably, to the natural diversity of humans.

The job of the "system" (legal, political, economic, even cultural and religious) is to mitigate excesses and especially abuses of power before it comes to extremes of bloodshed; but as those also sometimes concentrate power, they themselves need something to regulate the systemic abuses or the non-sytemic abuses of empowered officials.

Humans are the problem, some of them. But greed is also motivational (and sloth), so you can't get rid of it entirely.

If you can keep your society smal enough that basically everyone knows what most other people are up to, it doesn't take much regulation, beyond trust and reputation. But as if your society grows to where some people are effectively faceless and unknown, then it becomes more problematic.

Everyone's strongest argument seems to be, you'll never have a perfect system. To me, this only shows they don't understand any system and don't appreciate their purpose.

[โ€“] seaQueue@lemmy.world 1 points 1 month ago

Meritocracy was always a myth spread to allow capital to operate freely. If you failed then it was your fault, nevermind that the deck was stacked heavily against you.

[โ€“] RBWells@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I guess look around the world and see what's working? Unfettered capitalism wouldn't work, and cronyism isn't unique to capitalism.

Unfettered meritocracy doesn't work either. Say I'm born smart and ambitious and become a captain of industry. Why do I "deserve" to make 100x or 10000x more than someone who is working hard but not smart or ambitious, or someone who is wildly creative in a not monetizatable way? And how do you even ensure all kids get the same starting line to actually have a meritocracy, if you are enforcing capitalism? 100% inheritance tax maybe, and the money allocated out to everyone?

Maybe all these systems are ideas - capitalism, socialism, fascism, meritocracy, and none could be achieved in real life, because we aren't living in a controlled test environment.

On your specific question, I think cronyism and inheritance are problems that transcend capitalism, but if you could somehow magically disappear them, meritocracy would reveal its faults, there isn't a perfect system. All we can do is try to think about what we want to achieve (environmental restoration, a healthy population, a vibrant marketplace that serves everyone not just a few) and try to incrementally get there.

[โ€“] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

I want to respond but would ask if you would humor me in my line of questioning. If not, no worries.

Why should we assume that without the influence of nepotism that capitalism will continue on the same path of corporate greed?

[โ€“] RBWells@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Human nature. I don't think it's the worst economic system, but if you measure everything in dollars, and say that a business venture's only task is to make value measured in dollars, I don't see how it can avoid exploitation.

As an accountant I want to say it might work if businesses were required to pay all the costs they currently externalize and hand to society and the future (so pollution or underpaying employees would be more expensive than being clean and paying more of the $ to the workers) but I'm not completely convinced.

As it stands now, companies become profitable because they aren't paying what it costs to produce their stuff. It seems baked into the system.

[โ€“] Clinicallydepressedpoochie@lemmy.world 0 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

So, in my mind wealth should last a generation. That is, wealth that is allowed to compete in the market. Ok, well that's nebulous but it is also a new idea to me. Say a CEO at the end of his life has no choice but to pass on his wealth to his children, which then can't re-enter the market as an investment tool but can only be used for consumer goods and services or maybe residential real estate. Or alternatively putting it back into the company as means for growth which can propel others into higher levels of management. Anyway, kinda just wanted to have this discussion from the onset.

Thanks for being a bro.

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