A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
Our Goals
Almost like working remote makes sense if people can complete their whole job at home.
I'm doing one day a week in the office right now and I loathe that one day. Literally all of the servers and services I'm responsible for are hosted at Azure so it doesn't matter where I'm at.
That one day is literally to weed out employees and justify the companies expenditure on office space.
Yup, and anyone that complies but complains is automatically put under suspicion of "quiet quitting". It's all a huge fucking game, and you only learn the rules as you play and only if you pay close attention. Best to keep your head down and just comply quietly...until you can find something better before the next round of layoffs.
The joke is on them then, we "went back" to the office in 2021 and I've been doing this since.
Same. Ridiculous. I work on a computer, it doesn't really matter where I am as long as I'm at the computer. So why force me through an unpaid commute?
I spoke up in a recent meeting about how big of a pay cut it would be to come back into the office. Supervisor and even coworkers were just like …ya.
Alright, so everyone has just accepted this shit as inevitable!?
Hell, no. I was hired remote, the position was approved as remote, and remote is where I'm going to stay.
If I go job hunting, that's my #1 criteria. I took less money because remote, and because health insurance. I stand by that decision today, and would do the same again.
Paying more for not offering remote is the bare minimum for office workers
Office workers should start unionizing. If they’re going to force you into work at least make them pay you for your time.
Less likely to happen than IT workers union, but if it happens ot will be HUGE
I'd require an immediate $5000 / year pay increase to even consider it.
Wouldn't be nearly enough to get me back in an office. The benefits of working full time from home are worth far more than $5k/yr.
Especially if you have kids. Daycare adds $1300-$1500 per month for one child.
Daycare, vehicle ownership and maintenance costs, commute time...
Being sick because people come in with their fucking germs.
Which is also a peek for the business because some call in sick when they have a cold and you could still work from home...
You still need daycare if you have kids at home, remote or not. You can't honestly tell me you are getting work done with your kids at home, unless they are like >9
7 year old, goes to school. I save on after-care, which ain't cheap. Where I am, one can lose their kids for neglect if s/he comes home to an empty house up to 12 years old.
Hell, when I was in grade school, I walked to and from school, got home, got a snack, watched TV, or played with friends until parents got home.
Since there is statistically less crime now than then, I'm scratching my head over why we all have to be so scared of everything.
I walked myself to preschool, not a word of a lie. It's not so much a different world, it's just more or less I'd like to think because of the betterment of my life thanks to a long term investment by my parents, that I'm able to make better decisions than they were able to and provide my kids with more opportunities. Like not having to walk themselves to school at 4. We are talking a couple blocks here, in a small town. Not that I'd ever have my kids do it but I'm not an 80s parent. I also don't have to balance shift work like my parents did, and I have the luxury of balance and being able to work from home, again, thanks to the long game.
I've got a toddler and a 4.5 year old, so neither goes to school yet. They go to "school", in that I'd go insane if they were both at home, so they go to daycare. They wouldn't get the attention they deserve either. Something would have to give. I hear you on the after school programming costs, at 7 your kid should be able to entertain themselves for a couple hours. I guess that's not so bad. It just really depends on the kid too though, I've seen it both ways. There was a guy at my last job they forced back into the office 5 days because he was always dealing with his kids, trying to skimp on the daycare, and it was abundantly clear nothing was getting done. They were closer to my kids age though, like where it's not really acceptable.
There's no getting around day care for pre-kindergarten kids. My son usually plays all afternoon with a few other boys and girls in the neighborhood. I give him a walkie-talkie for simple communication.
There's no excuse for how our society deals with childcare. It's too expensive for most, yet the caretakers are extremely low paid. We need to at least consider something like the European approach.
Right now, if we can't find service, we can't work a well paying job, so we fall into poverty and need to get welfare. How is that better than the alternative?
It really is quite the conundrum.
We live in Canada, and our son was recently involved in a really bad daycare outbreak of E.coli. Basically long story short, they fed them tainted meatloaf, about 300 or so kids got sick, some are still in the hospital months later. Thankfully none died, but there are some little lives that are forever altered. We were extremely lucky in that our son only got marginally sick, but we were without daycare for over a whole month waiting for him to test negative. My wife is still on mat leave so it wasn't the biggest deal for us, but there are hundreds of families that are still scrambling. Like having to take long term leaves of absence and whatnot.
The kicker of this whole thing, was the cause was basically underpaid and undereducated laborers who were either too ignorant or woefully uneducated. Yet we pay thousands of dollars for this care. It's infuriating. And we feel helpless, because of course we don't want our kids going there anymore, but we don't otherwise really have any appetizable choices. They have to go there or one of us has to quit our job and basically trash our careers just as they are finally in the good stages after 20 years of grinding. There already was a massive shortfall of daycare spaces around us, I've had a deposit and a spot on the waiting list for my daughter at this place before she was even born, and it's obviously gotten even worse now. It's definitely the most helpless I've felt as a parent. It's such a fucked up situation. We definitely need to do better as a society, for our young families. You are right on that one.
Have worked with kids at home since March 2020 when they were 4 and 6. School for half the day, then take turns supervising basically with my partner. It's not ideal but it works.
Heck, I remember a company car being with around $8k salary-wise a few years ago. That was just for fuel & maintenance.
yeah 5k is what, barely over $400 a month? so for free groceries essentially this person would skip out on remote work lol
I recently had a recruiter reach out offering a 3day in the office hybrid position. I said I’d be happy to chat assuming they meet my salary requirements.
Those requirements are 50% more pay. Simple.
I don’t mind going to the office when it is useful, but having a tues-thurs schedule means at least half the time I’ll be sitting there with headphones on trying to block out the world while trying to ignore random chatters.
Hell, I'm looking at taking a $30k total compensation hit and jumping to a remote first organization. Given I'm trying to leave for many other reasons, but if they weren't remote first the decision would be much harder.
That's right around the cut I took, totally worth it. As a bonus, the new company expects me to be here when I'm working, and to NOT be here when I'm not working. Seems like such a basic concept, but I was 'on' or 'on call' 24/7 for years at the old job. No more of that either. Quality of life is worth a bunch of money to me...
My experience has been the opposite. I make way more remote, because I'm able to travel the world remotely, and can go where the money is. No more needing to put up with local wages that have been stagnant for a decade, and a stagnant local culture that's stuck 30 years in the past.
That's what they are really scared about.
I worked it out, parking, wear and tear on the car + the loss in value in putting in way more mileage, fuel, and time. It added up to more than $40k.
I mean yeah gas alone is at least 75% more expensive.
Just looked it up. It's 43% more now than this time 4 years ago.
Though at it's peak back in June, it was 76% higher than June 4 years ago.
Gas hit $4 a gallon in 2008, I paid $2.79 for gas yesterday. The numbers could show what we want to with gas. Working in office sucks and I'd like to be compensated. 1.5 hrs to work and 1 hr home for the most part. So I am around $500 a month gas wise, and 50 hrs a month of used time that I am out. It sucks
As someone fortunate enough to be able to negotiate - there is no way I will do office work ever again as long as it's avoidable. I'd skip the country to enforce remoteness before calling an office my life.
So it’s not surprising to him that, when asked what work perks would get hybrid employees to return in-person more often, the No. 1 response was if their commuting costs were covered (38%), over other things like free food, child-care subsidies or a relaxed dress code.
Those aren't perks, those are reduced but still unnecessary hardships. I don't have a dress code, travel expenses, or travel time. Wake up and work when I'm most switched on.
Pro-office folk only care about control and realestate.
To be fair, team building isn't great unless your team is a bunch of introverts so that is one point for office.
I prefer 100% WFH because I can spend the commute time with my kids and tell them outright that time is worth another 100k which I've never had taken up. I have solar at home so I make no energy footprint while I work too.
My employer is asking me to come in 3x a week when on the bench. Maybe 2x when assigned on a project.
I don't live far from work, but I spend on bus tickets just to go to and come back from the office. Buying a monthly bus pass isn't worth it for me considering how much I go out. The bus fare increased quite a bit in the past 5 years.
Plus I have to buy lunch everytime I go because I can't carry a lunch with an the equipment. And food from restaurants or food courts have become ridiculously expensive.
I'd be willing to go once or twice a week. More than that is useless and costly.