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‘We can’t confuse Hamas with all Palestinians’: Spain says amid aid review (www.aljazeera.com)

submitted 8 months ago by NightOwl@lemm.ee to c/worldnews@lemmy.ml

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[-] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 261 points 8 months ago

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[-] zerfuffle@lemmy.ml 165 points 8 months ago

Really makes you think about why Hamas is so radicalized, doesn't it? It's not like you can pull a Muslim out of a hat and radicalize them. People in a stable, healthy, and fair socioeconomic position do not see violence as an answer. People who live under constant oppression, inequality, and fear do.

[-] drolex@sopuli.xyz 93 points 8 months ago

And the irony is that Israel allowed Hamas to be funded by Arabic countries 25 years ago when it was a way to weaken Arafat and the PLO. Everything in this area is fucked beyond parody. No authority on either side has any idea about morality.

[-] AdmiralShat@programming.dev 39 points 8 months ago

The same parallels with how the US funded what would later become Al Qaeda to fuck with the Soviets. Then they did 9/11.

[-] TWeaK@lemm.ee 39 points 8 months ago

Netanyahu actually said something very similar, that the best way to destabilise the Palestinian Authority was to finance Hamas.

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[-] merc@sh.itjust.works 63 points 8 months ago

Also, about half of Israel's jewish citizens = secular people who want peace

It seems to be the ultra-religious on both sides that are constantly making things worse.

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[-] joelthelion@lemmy.world 60 points 8 months ago

What makes the problem hard is that there are a lot of dickheads on both sides, not just the governments. You can be an oppressed victim AND a dick. These things are not mutually exclusive, unfortunately.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 27 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Plus Israel's dickery gets blind support from America. I'd guess if the Americans demanded actual concessions from Israel this would no longer be a problem, they'd have two states already. As it is, they have every economic and political incentive to just squeeze the Palestinians harder.

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[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 18 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Isreali citizens = also victims, although much less abused and arguably somewhat complicit if they immigrated.

[-] InputZero@lemmy.ml 45 points 8 months ago

This part always makes me feel ambivalent about the Israelites in the conflict. Israeli citizens are complicit victims, and that's a contradiction but it's also true. Civilians are getting hurt and dying and that's not okay. However those same Israeli citizens are also supporting a basically genocidal government. Thousands of guidanceless rockets were fired at Isreal, are they expected not to respond? Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been victimized for their entire lives, are they expected not to respond?

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 21 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

If you're just born in Tel Aviv or Gaza City, I don't think you should be blamed for these military things. Maybe you support Hamas or Otzma Yehudit, but you're kind of a product of your environment, and if tangential support is all you do you're still a bystander. Maybe not a great example of humanity, but a bystander none the less.

I would have to be pretty truly desperate to consider aliyah myself, even before there was a war. I guess I could do it, and then support forces in Israel for peace, but I'm not sure if I'd make any difference, and they're going to be reluctant to let in my never-practiced ass even without me being openly hostile to the whole project.

[-] GreatWhiteNope@hexbear.net 20 points 8 months ago

One of the downsides of having mandatory military service is that civilians aren’t exactly regular civilians. Even if they’re not serving now, most of the adult population in Israel has served in the army.

I don’t think that excuses sexual violence and executing children, but it definitely makes the context of civilians a lot murkier.

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[-] pingveno@lemmy.ml 191 points 8 months ago

It's been 17 years since the last election. Assuming only 18 and up could vote, that means only people current around 34 and up could vote. So the bulk of Palestinians didn't even have a chance to vote in that election. Not to mention that they were given the choice between a corrupt faction (Fatah) and a possible less corrupt faction (Hamas).

[-] AdamHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 60 points 8 months ago

I am so afraid this message is getting lost. There has been a deliberate push to paint this latest incident to be the reason that neighborhoods had to be flattened and civilians slaughtered.

[-] davepleasebehave@lemmy.world 26 points 8 months ago

why can't they hold elections?

[-] rappo@lemmy.world 54 points 8 months ago

Conveniently, the Palestinian government is denying all citizens the right to vote because those who live in Jerusalem would not be included. It helps Hamas keep power while pinning blame elsewhere.

They scheduled one for last year to get on Biden's good side, but that never happened.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/1/27/palestinian-elections-democracy-for-no-one

[-] fosforus@sopuli.xyz 16 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

They can. They won't.

Either they're just undemocratic, or they know that the results of elections wouldn't be what they want them to be.

[-] steakmeout@aussie.zone 13 points 8 months ago

Because Abbas is a lying, snivelling turd who pretends to care about his people.

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[-] tegs_terry@feddit.uk 76 points 8 months ago

Here here. At least somebody has some fucking balls. Perhaps because it's not a mess they created.

[-] madcaesar@lemmy.world 33 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Hear, hear, not here, here.

[-] tegs_terry@feddit.uk 35 points 8 months ago

Quite write, my mistake.

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[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 64 points 8 months ago

Go Spain.

[-] Rolder@reddthat.com 37 points 8 months ago

Haven’t surveys shown that a majority of Palestinians support Hamas?

[-] Auli@lemmy.ca 68 points 8 months ago

Sure but you try being killed and kicked out of your homes. I'm sure you would not like the people who are doing it either. Israel has created this mess.

[-] SasquatchBanana@lemmy.world 46 points 8 months ago

People forget Israel is the one with the power and creating this issue. If Israel actually backs off and treats Palestine as at least human, then I think (and hope) most people will see that Hamas needs to be destroyed as they are a terrorist group.

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[-] Grant_M@lemmy.ca 62 points 8 months ago

Hamas kills anyone who doesn't bow to them, including Palestinians.

[-] desconectado@lemm.ee 26 points 8 months ago

I mean if you live in a country controlled by a terrorist group that kills anyone who is not their side, and someone goes to your door and asks if you support them... What would you say?

It's easy to dismiss this issue by thinking they have the same freedom of speech as we do in the west, and they can have political opinions without any repercussion.

Same can be said about north Korea.

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[-] AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com 22 points 8 months ago

Hamas is the only group in this world standing up for the Palestinian people, so I would support them too, we're I locked up in that open air prison, my family and friends being constantly murdered for profit.

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[-] What_Religion_R_They@hexbear.net 27 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

"Hamas" has done more for Palestinians than all the "aid" ever given by the EU.

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[-] American_Communist22@lemmygrad.ml 26 points 8 months ago

Hamas have done more for Palestine than anything the EU has ever done

[-] Fishroot@hexbear.net 17 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Hamas has supporters because they are the only one who fight. If tomorrow, Hamas disappears, there will be another group that Palestinians would support and another and another until there are no reasons for the Palestinians to resist

you don't need to like them or anything (this is not liberalism and freedom of association is not real), our morals or opinions can't stop the mechanism that is taking place in the place

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[-] wick@lemm.ee 24 points 8 months ago

Is Spain offering asylum to Palestinians? Because that's the only thing that will help those people.