Don't accuse literally anyone who mentions racism of being a wrecker, psyop, neoliberal, obsessed with idpol, etc.
this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2023
0 points (NaN% liked)
askchapo
22776 readers
407 users here now
Ask Hexbear is the place to ask and answer ~~thought-provoking~~ questions.
Rules:
-
Posts must ask a question.
-
If the question asked is serious, answer seriously.
-
Questions where you want to learn more about socialism are allowed, but questions in bad faith are not.
-
Try !feedback@hexbear.net if you're having questions about regarding moderation, site policy, the site itself, development, volunteering or the mod team.
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
I once was called out on here for “racism-jacketing” lol had never heard that term before. Still don’t really understand what it means z just assume it’s another way to deflect racism
Not dismissing our indifference over the support of Ukraine after no support has ever been given to us as “whataboutism” or telling me that it’s not the right time to worry about xyz. That’s not to say anyone here is guilty of such, but I believe the majority of white American liberals outside of here consider themselves “leftist” and ask the same question.
I think it’s incredible that what made me stop having a baseline level of respect and trust for white people is seeing them dehumanize another group of white people in real time and advocate for nuclear war. Partly because the same language and tactics have been used against us in the past. It’s like these people buried it deep down their brain and now have an excuse to pull back the tropes without the fear of being called racist.
And I 100% get that’s it’s not on marginalized folks to explain it to us.
I never understood this sentiment. Yes it’s annoying to repeat myself, especially if it’s in response to some bad faith asshole. But if it’s some white guy who’s genuinely curious about what I believe then I have no problem explaining it
People used to laugh at me when I said that if the US ever went to war with China, it would not hesitate to put Chinese Americans in camps.
Many of them stopped laughing in 2022.
seeing them dehumanize another group of white people in real time
some points about Germany's racism history
I would like to expand on that a bit. The thing is that from a German perspective - so CW - (and that of plenty racism and othering/group based hate theories, and historical anti-slav racism) they aren't "another group of white people", as the criteria is often factually one of power dynamics.
In Germany before the second world war in the non-materialist parts of society there often was a fiction of a Russian, a Russian soul, about Slavs etc. during the second world war due to the genocidal policies of the Nazis one of the largest groups of victims were Slavs. After the end of the second world war the differentiation between ethnic groups within Eastern Europe from the Central European perspective was not that relevant. After the fall of the Soviet Union, Germanies reunification, the EU eastward expansion you had countries in the East which were dominated by poor economic situations, with it you had plenty of economic and further exploitation in regards to them, especially when people would try to get income or refuge in Germany. This meant that for years racisms were at work that connected to anti slav sentiments. Of course discrimination against precarious marginalized work migrants i.e. from Italians, Turkish hiring were even before 1990 common. This changed with time slightly, but especially in situations in which skin color markers are used to assign others the status of the other and was connected with for example anti muslim, anti arab, anti palestine, anti jewish ideas etc. it is still more prevalent.
I wrote this to give some more perspective from Germany's history. I would like to mention that the concept of "white people" doesn't really work so well transferred from the US perspective as the everyday racism within "white people" work slightly different ("whiteness" still works well, though). For plenty of colonialism related things it is a really fitting concept even within Germany, though.
CW excursion genocide against the Ovaherero and Nama
In 1904-1908 Germany as colonial power unleashed a genocide within a colony in which the aforementioned "white people"/whiteness and racism work well explanatory. Due to the genocide against BIPoC groups in ethnic extermination processes up to hundred thousands were killed, often in camps, virtually indiscriminate in terms of age or gender.
In 2006 there were still streets named after the military commander execution those killings. Successes in the continued political struggle of remembrance are slow. If you are interested in that topic the texts by Israel, one of the speakers of relevant actors, are well worth a read.
Which of course supports your point though, that
seeing them dehumanize another group of white people in real time
is what happened. But it is in continuity with historical ways and anti russian and anti slav sentiments that are commonly established are in work, too. In the 90s I remember reading a newspaper article in which a doctor was writing about refugees from the former Soviet Union and how many are faking illness, even though
which is a continuation of Nazi thought that became luckily more rare, now that the professors at medical schools aren't people educated in Nazi Germany anymore.CW
"Russians experiences less pain, but are prone to faking things to game the system"
For competitions sake I would like to also mention Romnja and Sintezza (some prefer in English the term gypsy, others don't like that term) and the anti-ziganist racism against them, who are PoC and whose discrimination continued in West Germany by the same people who were executing the Pojaromos.
It was hard to highlight anti-polish and anti-slav sentiments even within the Left in Germany in the 90s post reunification, but especially within the left liberals. Race (the English term) was often put below the economic conditions and put below the main contradiction of capitalism we had to work against.
Stop trying to victimize/forgive our oppressors and the very people who volunteered to destroy our countries and murder our people. (Im talking about your soldiers/vets)
white people need to give the metaphorical guns and ammunition to their bipoc comrades to help overthrow whiteness itself, since they have an inside understanding of how whiteness works we need to utilize the material support of white people. They basically have to give everything and get nothing in return, i think something that scares a lot of white people is that there will be a significant decline in their standard of living in the process of uplifting others. We need to abolish the suburbs, cars, the western style of agriculture, and the overproduction of treats, ect. They have a reason to be scared since white people are only prosperous because they stole the wealth of others.
The thing is, the avarice is not working. We have the supposed easy life and it fucking sucks because it's still late stage capitalism. If abandoning luxury goods means that the people around me are far less miserable, that's not really "getting nothing in return", is it? Having less people suffering around me means that my day is better too.
You ever watch the Atlanta episode on reparations? Its literally has to be like that. There needs to be some kind of tax on white people that directly goes to black people. Such a thing would cause a lot of discontent among whites, we need to push hard enough to get shit done but not too hard that whites don't cooperate, this isn't south africa we don't outnumber them yet.
Even a meaningful tax on billionaires would get us 75% of the way there… if only because most of them are various flavors of Anglo Saxon
Best thing we, white people, can do to be less weird to EVERYONE and not just BIPOC people is not be the white people that be like "white people be like: " because we be white and that looks cringy AF to everyone
white people be like: Best thing we, white people, can do to be less weird to EVERYONE and not just BIPOC people is not be the white people that be like "white people be like: " because we be white and that looks cringy AF to everyone
I've been owned