this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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No Stupid Questions

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[–] DarkFuture@lemmy.world 9 points 33 minutes ago

The sooner you realize the vast majority of humans are simply not very intelligent, the more everything starts making sense. And the more depressed you will be.

[–] Apathy@lemmy.world 2 points 15 minutes ago

Most are wanting an end to this current system so they’ll ‘play’ it out knowing albeit the struggle, Democracy has left the building and late stage capitalism is showing the disparity of the predators and preys of society

[–] DrownedRats@lemmy.world 14 points 1 hour ago

Because they've successfully been conned into thinking that what's in the best interests of the rich is in their own best interests too.

[–] eunieisthebus@feddit.org 5 points 1 hour ago

This question is actually pretty old. Already ancient Greek / Roman philosophers discussed this.

Google the word 'anacyclosis' if you want to learn more. Alternatively here is a video link. I marked the position where the cycle explanation starts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqsBx58GxYY&t=371

[–] jeze3d@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 hours ago

Hatred for a minority group, such as transgender people, tickles the idiot part of the monke brain.

[–] ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 32 points 4 hours ago

Because the rich pretend like it's in peoples interest, people believe them because oh they are rich they must know what they are talking about, and because people are stupid.

[–] Freefall@lemmy.world 9 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Ignorance and gullibility. I fall for misinformation all the time, especially when it confirms my own biases and it takes real effort to maintain a mindset of "yes this sounds true, but is it actually?" It is also terribly inefficient. If someone tells me, when I was a kid, that daddylonglegs spiders are the most poisonous, I am likely going to just go "neat" and now I think that and say it. If you stop and verify EVERYTHING EVER you have no time to do anything in life. This makes the filter of critical thinking.....critical.

Also, it isn't about being stupid (though that helps). Some of the smartest people I know are conspiracy theory nutjobs. They can easily draw parallels between disparate facts, but can't filter their findings or understand correlation doesn't equal causation.

[–] GoofSchmoofer@lemmy.world 1 points 1 hour ago

Yep. Lost a good and very smart friend to the anti vax conspiracies and maybe others by now.

I've also had to really pay attention and tell myself that I live in a liberal bubble and need to balance that bias against what is truth.

[–] Red_October@lemmy.world 7 points 3 hours ago

Because they've been fooled into thinking it will either benefit them, or benefit people they feel "deserve it."

[–] Tattorack@lemmy.world 6 points 3 hours ago

I can use my brother as an example for that:

My younger brother is entirely sold on billionaire philanthropy. He watched interviews where people like Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos on talk shows and podcasts, places where people like this go to advertise themselves, and has been completely convinced that they're innovative, smart people.

Smart people who, through just being so damn smart, managed to become billionaires.

[–] antlion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 hours ago

Who is there to vote for otherwise? Two sides of the same coin. The rich try to keep politics about anything except wealth inequality. The rich keep the good candidates off your ballot long before it’s time to choose between tweedle Dee and tweedle dum.

[–] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 5 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Usually this happens when you dont have a democracy. Establish a system with rank choice voting and a few dozen candidates, and you'll see votes closer aligned with voter interests

[–] aesthelete@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

They're idiots

[–] miak@lemmy.world 5 points 4 hours ago (2 children)

Often when I see someone accusing people of voting against their own interests, it's pretty clear that the person making the accusation has not taken the time to understand the values others are basing their choice on.
If I could rob a person and be confident that I would never be caught and punished for doing so, am I acting against my own self interest if I chose not to rob them because it goes against my moral code? No, of course not. But based on the way some people talk about voting against ones self interest, you might think I just cheated myself out of free money. Is it possible that a person might "vote against their own interests" because of a misinformed view? of course, but you'll never understand a person's motivations by chosing to paint them with broad strokes based on your prejudices instead of getting to know them individually and trying to understand what it is they truly value.

[–] A7thStone@lemmy.world 3 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

The answer is fear. Fear is what they truly value.

[–] miak@lemmy.world 1 points 47 minutes ago

Fear is often a motivating factor in a person's choice. This was equally true of the left and right in this past US presidential election.
I haven't seen any evidence that fear is a value that most people hold though. The source of their fear is concern over the things they do value.

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

You just got to get to know the Nazi to understand them?

Oh wait it is more nuanced than that. You gotta get to know the racist to emphasize with them?

Dang it, we got to dig deeper. You have to get to know the misogynist to get them?

Sometimes getting to know someone is not the magical solution people think it is.

[–] miak@lemmy.world 0 points 49 minutes ago (1 children)

There's those broad strokes I was talking about. I appreciate you providing an example.

Refusing to empathize and understand how people arrive at their views in favor of this kind of prejudice will never contribute to positive changes.
Yes, the best cure to bigotry is love and compassion. Love and compassion start with empathy. It's easy to empathize with those that think and act like you do - it can be difficult, but all the more important, to empathize with those that don't. Refusing to do so only ensures polarization of society and a perpetuation of the cycles of violence that permeate society. This is something that has become all the more clear with the rise of social media and the info bubbles they trap people in.

[–] Doomsider@lemmy.world 1 points 19 minutes ago* (last edited 15 minutes ago)

You can spend years turning the heart of a racist and certainly some people have done this successfully.

Meanwhile propaganda has turned out another ten thousand racists in the time it took you to change a couple minds.

To be frank your belief is not completely wrong but it will not solve our current problems.

You hint on the reality that it is our social constructs such as social media that is driving this resurgence of hate.

As a social worker by trade I can say I know a lot about this topic. There is a classic story of people getting swept into the river.

While it is admirable that you want to jump in to save people the real solution is going upstream and stopping people from falling in.

Understanding racist losers will not accomplish what you want. Changing their minds will not either. You have to stop it at the source.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 points 3 hours ago

Because it's no longer about benefits or interests.

It's about the "my side won, your side lost, get over it" mentality. It's about the tribalism and making sure you keep your ire focused on your fellow man rather than looking up and seeing the source of your problems

And it's not just the US. It's fucking everywhere.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 11 points 5 hours ago

This is a complex question, but up front first and foremost in any Capitalist country, voting will always benefit the rich, even FDR style Social Democracy came about as concessions to prevent revolution in the context of a decimated working class and a rising USSR.

People, generally, vote along their class interests, but these are handled in a different manner depending on which country you are in. Using the US as an example, the DNC caters to social progressivism, while the GOP caters to social conservativism. On foreign policy, the GOP and DNC are near identical, and when it comes to domestic economic policy, the DNC caters slightly more to urban voters while the GOP caters to rural voters.

This is all, however, in the context of parties that function as businesses that sell policy to Capitalists. Both parties serve Capital, because Capital is what holds real power. It holds power over the media, the state, everything.

The answer to how to fix this is getting workers to organize. When workers organize, they raise their social and class awareness and can accomplish far more than atomized individuals can.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 7 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Do we actually vote to benefit the rich?

Many vote for leaders that openly cater to the rich, but I don’t know that we actually consciously vote to deliberately help the rich.

Those elected people are the ones telling everyone that the rich are the job creators. They used to feed us the farce that trickle-down was viable, they don’t even bother with the lie anymore. The rich are just squatters on wealth. They get that wealth by consolidating businesses, hoarding assets like real estate, creating artificial scarcity, enshittifying everything, and squeezing labor for more productivity while expending massive effort to minimize overall compensation.

And they own the media. All of it. Even the “liberal” media is mealy at best about taxing wealth or anything critical of the uber-wealthy, anything right of center is openly against tax, particularly of anyone with wealth, making the wealthy the “victims” of the left’s ideas while the wealthy are just parasites victimizing us all.

All that aside, the real crux of the issue is identity politics. Being a sycophant of the rich is no longer any different than being a evangelical supply-side Jesus CINO, pro-gun, anti-government, anti-tax, anti-environmental regs, blah blah and all the rest of the mulish conservative BS.

They don’t actually care if we cater to the rich. They care that their team says we should bend over and give the rich everything. Just like their team says school shootings are an acceptable price for having your own personal arsenal, or spreading a potentially deadly disease is better than being inconvenienced by closed restaurants.

Obstinate tribalism has gleefully supplanted critical thought.

[–] GhiLA@sh.itjust.works 18 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Two camps

  1. They don't know any better.

Basically leftists-in-training that haven't read enough wikipedia articles on Reagan yet.

  1. People voting and believing political opinions with their gut instinct

Don't bother, and if you see one with a nazi flag, punch them in the face.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 8 points 6 hours ago

People get more upset about a bad friend than a real enemy.

[–] nutsack@lemmy.world 4 points 5 hours ago

The rich are clever and very well coordinated

[–] zeppo@lemmy.world 7 points 6 hours ago

They get manipulated about and distracted by certain issues. The people who want power know this and exploit topics such as guns, abortion, fear of crime, racism/nationalism, sexism, economic issues and taxes. Plenty of people vote republican because they have been convinced that Democrats will take their guns, allow in too many immigrants (with the implicit idea that immigrants are bad somehow), be worse on the economy, lower taxes, let criminals get off easy, reduce the influence of Christianity, and so forth.

There’s also the decades of propaganda about socialism and communism, and against social safety nets as well as government and anything run by the government vs a private entity. So basically, because they’re not very aware or well informed and all themselves to be convinced by propaganda.

[–] babybus@sh.itjust.works 20 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Because our brains are not wired for the modern complex world. Most decisions we make, we make thanks to heuristics that are heavily exploited by other people.

[–] CouncilOfFriends@slrpnk.net 22 points 9 hours ago
[–] Huschke@lemmy.world 11 points 9 hours ago (1 children)

Here are a few examples of what I've seen them do in the time I've been alive.

  • Lowering the amount of educated people by various means such as cutting (on not properly increasing) funding, restricting access to it,...
  • Limiting access to (somewhat) correct information by buying up news media outlets, severely influencing social media, telling people that their "alternative media" is the only way to get correct information, and so much more
  • Actively pitting groups of people against each other, black vs white, immigrants vs citizens, women vs men,...
[–] Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world 5 points 7 hours ago

I agree with all of your points but believe there is one more.

Many vote for their party because that is what their family has always done. To them it is like rooting for their Football or Baseball team. They just want the win and feed off any news stories that support that view. No matter how much of complete failure a Republican President is (G.W.B. Comes to mind) their popularity never drops below 28% - 35%.

[–] FuryMaker@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

They believe it will benefit them one day.

[–] kubok@fedia.io 21 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

One reason I have not read yet: scapegoating. In my country, back in the early 2000s it was the "terrorists" who made it possible to enforce a few unpopular and unconstitutional policies. Nowadays, it is the "immigrants" who take our jobs (we have a job shortage), housing (which was sold off to investors) and health care (which was sold off to investors). Point to a group that cannot defend itself and people will vote in your favor.

[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 hours ago

Point to a group that cannot defend itself and people will vote in your favor

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- Lyndon Johnson.

Still ultimately Conservative policy to this day.

[–] darthelmet@lemmy.world 37 points 14 hours ago

Because the rich do a LOT to make it turn out that way.

  • News is largely controlled by capitalists.

  • Education has been gutted in a lot of places to make way for private schools.

  • Corporations can contribute tons of money to candidates. Setting aside the possibility that these are effectively bribes, even if that weren't the case, the candidates who get that money get to put out more ads and have more campaign infrastructure such as travel funds, staffers, etc.

  • Various kinds of voter suppression.

  • From the very founding of the country, the election system and government has been set up to hamper political participation. Obviously there was the fairly narrow franchise at the start. But even with that expanded, we have the electoral college, unequal apportionment, gerrymandering, first past the post, closed primaries, a court that's specifically there to slow down popular will, etc.

  • Just being a representative "democracy" puts a barrier between people and the policies they want. You rarely if ever get to vote on policies. You have to vote for a candidate. And the candidate is a whole bundle of policies, but also a record, a personality, etc. So there can be all sorts of political messaging about candidates which has nothing to do with what their policies are. Because of the duopoly party system that is all but ensured by the aforementioned voting system, you aren't even going to have a candidate you can vote for that will represent your interests. And after all that, even if you manage to vote for someone who says they'll do the things you want... then they get into office and you're back on the sidelines. They go and do whatever it was they actually wanted to do, and you have fairly limited recourse for holding them accountable. The most you can do is decide to vote against them next election, but now you're back to square one.

  • Broader, more participatory forms of political organizing have been violently repressed. Just look at the history of union busting or the police violence during the civil rights movement or even now, etc. In the workplace, where you're most likely to find others who share your class interests, your boss has a lot of control over you and it's in their interest to make sure employees don't talk politics and view each other as competition rather than potential allies.

  • Along similar lines, racism has been used as a tool to divide people who would otherwise share class interests so they wouldn't focus their attention on capitalists.

Moral of the story: There is a long history of people struggling against capitalists for a better life and an equally long history of capitalists using every trick in the book to keep them from that goal. The political landscape you see today is the result of that history. Learn from it.

[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 18 points 13 hours ago (1 children)
[–] water@lemmy.world 58 points 16 hours ago

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."

--Lyndon B. Johnson

[–] Sundial@lemm.ee 209 points 19 hours ago (2 children)

Because the rich control an overwhelming amount of the media we consume. They are capable of shaping the narrative to their benefit.

[–] FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

And, social media, these days nearly as important, if not more important.

You (very understandably) hear a lot about state-sponsored (especially Russian) astroturfing, but very little about billionaire and company sponsored astroturing, which is very much a thing.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 132 points 18 hours ago (9 children)

They also successfully killed public education, so literally the citizens are too stupid to understand they're being conned.

[–] Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world 59 points 18 hours ago (2 children)

This is the most important part.

And also they push religion hard which is inherently a system of control for the uneducated and exploited.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 43 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago) (5 children)

Not just control, but Christianity specifically (as well as a few others) is really good because it promises a paradise after you die.

You can get idiot plebes to spend their whole lives dreaming about it all being better after they die, because they were pious and accepted abuse during life.

So, control through fear and hope.

EDIT: Also Christianity is inherently misogynistic and that's very appealing to disaffected young men who hate that women won't fuck them. Angry young men with no direction or group to belong to are one of the most dangerous and destabilizing groups a country can have.

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[–] MimicJar@lemmy.world 0 points 5 hours ago

Since I didn't see it listed yet, fear of change.

Some folks are just fearful of change.

Rarely is a change proposal black and white. We can show you good data to support the change. We can look at it from a reputable source. We can look at how the change affected others. We can agree it's most likely a good change.

But sometimes we fear it.

What if we're wrong?

[–] originalfrozenbanana@lemm.ee 48 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

Let’s say I’m an American male. I like football. I like the NY Jets, because I also like to suffer.

I don’t have to read the news, or go to news websites, or listen to news radio, to hear about my Jets. I don’t have to risk accidentally learning about what’s going on in the world watching the 6 o’clock news every evening when all I really want to know is the latest saddening Jets news.

I can listen to podcasts that tell me about jets players health, fantasy picks, gossip, the latest games, and betting strategy. In the offseason my podcasts don’t go off air. I can go to websites where algorithms that have already identified me as a Jets fan bury any news about politics or social issues under a mountain of roster updates and advertisements for beer (because Jets fans need it).

Then it comes time to vote. These democrats all seem to talk about stuff I don’t care about or understand. This Trump guy says he will do stuff. I hate the way things are, but I don’t know why they are that way. Corporate monopolies? Antitrust? Voter suppression? All that shit got buried under Aaron Roger’s passing stats. And Trump wasn’t all that bad when he was president. Certainly better than I feel now, and while I’ll pore over individual player stats to take matchups into account when I set my fantasy football roster I’m not gonna go pore over statistics on the economy or anything. That shit is complicated and boring, and football stats are definitely not. So I never have to risk remembering that Trump was pretty fucking bad.

On Election Day I vote for the guy who says he’ll do stuff, and it’s easy to do it, and it’ll be fast, and I’ll like the outcome. I won’t vote for the party that gave up 30 years ago and whose message is basically “come on guys we’re trying really hard but this governing thing is impossible!”

That’s how, basically. That and bigots.

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[–] lordnikon@lemmy.world 75 points 19 hours ago (4 children)

Because powerful people turned politics from a policy / representation in to politics as an identity. People will almost anything for their two minutes of hate.

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[–] CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world 13 points 15 hours ago

The root of it is that we don't teach skepticism or critical thinking in public schools. Seriously.

Question authority. Question everything. But especially question authority. They rarely have your best interests in mind.

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