this post was submitted on 25 Nov 2024
58 points (98.3% liked)

Privacy

32130 readers
1071 users here now

A place to discuss privacy and freedom in the digital world.

Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.

In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.

Some Rules

Related communities

much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

I am a long term GrapheneOS user and would like to talk about it. r/privacy on the redditland blocks custom OS discussions which I think is very bad for user privacy, and I hope this post will be useful to anyone who are in the hunt for better privacy.

Nowadays smartphones are a much bigger threats to our privacy and Desktop systems, and unfortunately manufacturers has designed them to be locked down devices with no user freedom. You can't just "install Linux" on most smartphones and it is horrible. And most preloaded systems spy on us like crazy. That was why I specifically bought a pixel and loaded GOS onto it.

According to https://grapheneos.org/features , they start from base AOSP's latest version, imptoves upon it's security and significantly hardens it. There's hardened_malloc to.prevent against exploitation, disabling lots of debugging features, disabling USB-c data, hardening the Linux kernel and system apps etc. They even block accessing the hardware identifiers of the phone so that apps cannot detect whqt phone you're using. That means with Tor and zero permissions given, apps are anonymous.

Compatibility with apps are best in Custom ROMs but there are still that can't work, especially if they enforce device integrity. Very few apps usually enforce that tho. Also their community isn't the friendliest but you can get help. Just don't try and engage too much or have too many debates.

Anyone else here use GrapheneOS, or any other privacy ROMs? What is your experience? Do you disagree on any point? Let's have a discussion!

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] communism@lemmy.ml 2 points 18 minutes ago

Last 4 or so phones have all been GrapheneOS (I'm not buying new phones all the time to be clear; I use phones till they break; I'm just a long-time user) and yeah I've really had no problems to speak of. I currently have a separate profile with Play services for certain apps, and also just to isolate non-privacy-respecting apps that I have to have installed for whatever reason.

Almost all the apps I use are FOSS apps who are aware that a significant amount of their userbase will be using various AOSP forks so I've not run into any app compatibility issues. Even back when I used banking apps, I'd used 4 different banks' apps on GrapheneOS and all of them worked completely fine. Now I don't have a banking app because I won't install proprietary software unless I actually have to for some reason, and I can bank on the web just fine.

[–] Anonymouse@lemmy.world 1 points 14 minutes ago

I've been wanting to try it for a while now, but I'm too cheap to buy a phone that can run it.

[–] ouch@lemmy.world 5 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Personally for me the most important thing in Android is automatic native call recording. If GrapheneOS gets that, I will consider buying a Google Pixel device.

Also, banking and other apps should stop using Play Integrity API.

[–] egerlach@lemmy.ca 3 points 46 minutes ago

It's okay if they use the Play Integrity API, they just need to also whitelist the keys that sign the official Graphene OS ROMs. Not that I expect they'll do that, mind you...

[–] N0x0n@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 hour ago (4 children)

I post someone's comment on a controversial topic about google and GOS. I saved it because that's exactly how I feel.


Step 1 of installing GrapheneOS for de-googling your life: Buy a Google Pixel phone

Look - I know, I know. I get it. Google allows you to unlock the bootloader while maintaining the phone's unique and excellent hardware security features. The argument makes sense. It is compelling. Other manufacturers do not give you this freedom. I am not arguing about that. I have a Pixel phone running GrapheneOS myself.

However... It is just so very obviously ironic that one needs to trust Google's hardware and purchase a Google product to de-google their life through GrapheneOS. I think that it is a perfectly valid position for someone to raise their eyebrows, laugh, and remain skeptical of the concept either because they do not want to support Google at all, or because they simply will not trust Google's hardware.

The reason why I think that this is "controversial" is because I have seen multiple instances of someone pointing out the irony, followed by someone getting defensive about it and making use of the technical security arguments in an attempt to patch up the irony.

https://mander.xyz/comment/15084264

[–] schmurian@lsmu.schmurian.xyz 2 points 34 minutes ago

I think buying a Pixel phone second hand solves this issue and reduces a little e-waste at the same time.

[–] Tinkerer@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 hour ago

This is exactly why I don't have graphene os, the irony of having to support google is too much for me call me paranoid but i also dont trust them with the hardware piece either lol. I've been running lineage os without gapps and its honestly great, updates and patches are every few weeks, super stable and awesome.

[–] jet@hackertalks.com 1 points 1 hour ago

If your objective is to punish Google, or to have nothing to do with Google. I completely agree with you using a pixel phone just doesn't make any sense. You shouldn't do it

If your objective is to have the most security possible... Then you should install graphene on a Pixel phone.

[–] bloubz@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I don't have any answer for the point where you would not trust Google even for the hardware (even though I don't think there is any risk on the current devices)

But concerning the "don't want to support Google" an easier answer is to buy a second-hand Pixel

[–] eleitl@lemm.ee 2 points 1 hour ago

The point of not trusting Google hardware is that there is no way to know what hidden function is in there. De-lidding and reversing isn't practical at current integration density. So, no, I don't trust the hardware to not contain remoteable backdoors. But it's a pretty high threat level.

Ive used it for around a year and a half and never had any issues. My banking app stopped working after about 8 months but I just log in via a browser and it hasn't effected my life at all.

For anyone considering the move here is a list of bank apps and their current working status as I know that is a big consideration people worry over.

[–] muntedcrocodile@lemm.ee 11 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Yep. Been using it for about 2 years now. So far no issues except amazon prime but they gave me adds sufficiently annoying that i finally got around to setting up jellyfin. Been able to solve pretty much all my issues with dr gpt.

Every time i see someone posting about a new mobile phone exploit i get immense joy scrolling down through comments and finding someone posting the fact that graphene patched it 3 years ago and recommended a patch to google who have yet to implement it into base android.

[–] Darth_Vader__@lemmy.world 4 points 2 hours ago

Cellebrite and the new Grayjack or something both has zero ways to crack a GOS phone 🔥

[–] eleitl@lemm.ee 4 points 1 hour ago

I'm on it for a few weeks on my new Pixel 7 a. Looks painless, though I haven't migrated fully yet. Lineage OS on my old phone and tablet. Waiting for Pixel tablet sale to run GrapheneOS there too.

[–] Samsy@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

I was a long time lineageOS user and love the freedom of changing anything. I switched to grapheneOS and like it, but miss some features, that are just pointless and not relatable: no full AMOLED dark mode - the devs said the battery savings between dark and pure dark isn't relevant. and the other thing is: why is the white bar on the bottom not removable?

Because of these things I switched back to lineageOS and realised how dumb it is because of two optical features. GOS is definitely worth to look over two missing features and I switched back to GOS.

Anyway the most interesting transition from an lineage user to an grapheneOS user is, you realise that root isn't useful and more risk than fun.

[–] Object@sh.itjust.works 9 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (3 children)

Other than Starbucks app and VoLTE stuff, I haven't encountered an issue yet. Somehow all my banking apps work. The profile feature alone makes it worth it. They also recently increased the number of profiles that can be run in parallel, too.

[–] Darth_Vader__@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Did you fix VoLTE stuff? What was the issue?

[–] Object@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

The issue is that I can't make phone calls and send SMS... But it can be fixed using this tool:

https://github.com/kyujin-cho/pixel-volte-patch/blob/main/README.en.md

I need to run Shizuku every GOS update and enable VoLTE, so it's tedious, but necessary. Phone incapable of phone call is ridiculous.

Oh, and even with this fix, I can't call some people for some reason. I can receive call from them though.

[–] fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 1 points 34 minutes ago (1 children)

Could you automate that with Tasker?

[–] Object@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 minutes ago

Unless the phone is rooted, I don't think so; I need to enable wireless debugging first, then run Shizuku, then enable a bunch of options in the Pixel IME app. But then again, this can be done permanently with root.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] jet@hackertalks.com 8 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (9 children)

https://www.privacyguides.org/en/android/distributions/#aosp-derivatives

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

I am a GOS user, it just works, so I don't really think about it. It's very nice to have storage and contact scopes.

My only complaint is I can't share a VPN over hotspot or tethering, which is very useful for a travel router device (to make all traffic look like it's coming from the phone). (Lineage and calyxos have this)

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] Cris16228 7 points 2 hours ago (5 children)

I would love to buy a pixel to install GrapheneOS but ain't no way I'm giving google money and I don't know where I can buy a brand new pixel. There are currently 3 apps that scare me and not sure if they're even working on GOS and one is my bank app

[–] Nednarb44@lemmy.world 7 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Getting a used/refurbished one doesn't really give them anything, and actually prevents them from getting data on the next person who would have gotten the used phone and used the stock OS

[–] Cris16228 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

True. I have to see which one is the right one for me and the price. I'll check it later

[–] Nednarb44@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I got a 6 a few months ago and it's solid. I only got it as a test but ended up using it full time. I do wish j had gotten a newer one only to future proof more

[–] Cris16228 2 points 1 hour ago

I've found the 7 8/128 for ~270€ and it's great! Good conditions too, it scares me the green screen problem which is a pixel thing

[–] crimsoncobalt@lemmy.world 7 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Check out Swappa. They usually have plenty of phones in various condition to pick from.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Darth_Vader__@lemmy.world 3 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

Regarding banking app, check privsec.dev 's list.

Regarding Pixel, don't see it as giving money to Google, see it as payingnfor good hardware.

[–] Cris16228 1 points 32 minutes ago

Of course mine isn't supported 🥲 fuck google

[–] Cris16228 3 points 1 hour ago

I'm still paying a shitty company for good hardware. I will see if I can find a good refurbished, otherwise I'll pay the hardware with money and not my data. Fuck google

[–] EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Here they aren't officially available yet there are still plenty of resellers - I guess you can find some in your area. I was really scared that the bootloader wouldn't unlock due to the origin country's carrier shenanigans, but it went through just fine (still checked every bit of info I could before buying).

[–] Cris16228 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Last time I bought a phone it was sold as phone of my country then realized when started that was from another country in Europe so I'm scared of getting that again

[–] EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (1 children)

At least the listings I have seen explicitly listed the origin country. Mine is Japanese, and it cost less than an American counterpart, for example.

[–] Cris16228 3 points 1 hour ago

It's not a big deal but the thing I wanted to use was not available on that region🥲 then I learned how shitty the company was

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 4 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

My bank app worked fine on lineage OS without Google Play Services, but I ended up leaving them anyway because I wanted to have a bank that would let me use a mobile website and that bank required the use of their app.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] joanne@aussie.zone 3 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I've been using it for a few months. Very happy with it. Minimalistic initial setup, gives you the feeling of control as well as privacy, bank apps work splendidly... an effortless transition, I say as somebody who previously used iPhone but wasn't tied into the ecosystem.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Prunebutt@slrpnk.net 2 points 1 hour ago

It's great, but it drains my battery like hell, (with three profiles: default, google-ser-ices and owner... don't know if that's still recommended)

[–] xav@programming.dev 4 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (1 children)

I'm buying a Pixel, I'll try it soon. But for now I like LineageOS+MicroG very much.

[–] Darth_Vader__@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago

MicroG doesn't have as much compatibility as Sandboxed Pkay. Also I think LineageOS is not as patched and kept up to date, maybe try DivestOS or CalyxOS (both forks of Lineage)

[–] brownmustardminion@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

I've been using it for many months and I like it a lot. Only one of my banking apps doesn't work.

Currently my main issue is that webauthn stopped working after an update. And the community support hasn't been helpful.

I wish they had better documentation in general.

[–] DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 hours ago

I am waiting for the LineageOS port for my SM-A536B.

[–] shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 5 points 2 hours ago

I have used it in the past on a Google Pixel 3A, and I've used Lineage OS for many years as well.

load more comments
view more: next ›