this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2024
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Interesting Global News

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The man accused of gunning down a health insurance executive in a brazen hit in New York that sparked fierce debate about the industry pleaded not guilty Monday to state charges including "terrorist" murder.

Monday's hearing came after Mangione, 26, appeared in a New York court last week to face federal charges also including murder following his dramatic extradition by plane and helicopter from Pennsylvania, where he was arrested at a McDonald's restaurant. The suspect is charged in both state and federal court in the December 4 shooting of UnitedHealthcare chief executive Brian Thompson.

People demonstrating against the industry gathered outside court Monday brandishing banners reading "free Luigi" and "innocent until proven guilty."

If convicted in the state case, Mangione could face life imprisonment with no parole. In the federal case, he could technically face the death penalty.

Mangioni's attorney Karen Friedman Agnifilo has previously sought clarity on how simultaneous federal and state charges would work, calling the situation "highly unusual."

Agnifilo raised concerns on Monday that Mangione could not receive a fair trial, and questioned why New York mayor Eric Adams had been present when Mangione was brought off a police helicopter at a Manhattan helipad last week. Aginifilo told local media Monday that officials "are treating him like he is like some sort of political fodder." She said the sight of Mangione flanked by rifle-wielding tactical officers during the final stage of his extradition that was widely broadcast was "utterly political."

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[–] LiamTheBox@lemmy.world 38 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Keeping in mind a terrotist charge should be something like 911. Not killing one man.

Remember what happened to oyher shooters that attacked the public.

[–] psud@aussie.zone 1 points 1 hour ago

Specifically terrorism requires that he did a murder to try to change government policy. I don't think it's possible to prove he did terrorism

[–] JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee 39 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Remember how Rapist Brock Turner raped a girl, there were two witnesses, and the judge "didn't want to ruin an athletes life?"

It's fucking dystopic how our legal system picks and chooses who to apply the law to. Rape a not wealthy person? Get out of jail free. Kill an inarguably evil CEO? Terrorist! get the death penalty.

I personally feel more terrorized by rapists like Brock Turner being free in the world than by Luigi's actions.

[–] Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 119 points 2 days ago (9 children)

I've never seen the government work so fast as they are with this guy. There's people in jail that have been waiting months for a trial.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 1 day ago

Fucking trump and his followers staged a fucking insurrection and it took four years and the charges essentially thrown out when he won this election. They want this guy memory holed ASAP because he has genuine public support and the elites are terrified we vastly outnumber them and we’re well armed. Trump likes to say he can shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and get away with it, and figuratively so far he has. Let’s see what Luigi can get away with. The trumped up charges are in his favor IMO. Too high of a standard to meet.

[–] droporain@lemmynsfw.com 44 points 2 days ago

Should have been running for president during his crimes.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Arraignments are generally rather quick. Even for low profile crimes, they will normally arraign a defendant within a week of arrest or charges being filed. They really try to do it much faster with misdemeanors, normally the next business day. Arraignments are quick and easy, trials take years if the defendant doesn't take the plea deal.

An arraignment is literally a statement of the charges against the defendant. The defendant then pleads guilty or not guilty.

If they enter a guilty plea, then sentencing will normally occur immediately based on the plea bargain offered by the prosecution, or rather quickly, if no plea bargain was offered.

If they enter a not guilty plea, the prosecution sets up a date for a trial, and generally offers a plea bargain that may involve any number of incentives. 95% of cases take the plea bargain.

If it finally gets to trial, that can be years later because of the sheer overload of the system, though high noteriety cases like this one, and the OJ trial, tend to move a bit faster.

[–] LodeMike 12 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

This is a ~~deposition~~. Arraignment.

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[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 89 points 2 days ago (6 children)

The way they so desperately want to make an example out of him is going to give Luigi's lawyer plenty of ammo.

Making it a terrorism charge significantly raises the bar to get a guilty verdict even if Luigi admits to the killing.

Trying for the death penalty I think requires every member of the jury to agree on a guilty verdict instead of a majority (IANAL)

And every time they do this shit it just highlights the injustice between the classes because of course people are going to compare it to the treatment of mass shooters:
A dozen police officers to escort him vs 2 for a serial killer.
Terrorism charges and risk of the death penalty
Super special emergency line for CEOs because 911 isn't good enough for them.

Maybe a couple more assassinations of CEOs and the only country where this repeatedly happens will finally start looking into ways to prevent this.

[–] MisterFrog@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

Maybe a couple more assassinations of CEOs and the only country where this repeatedly happens will finally start looking into ways to prevent this.

Yeah by hiring private armies and getting special provision to hire police directly.

RoboCop here we come

[–] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 29 points 2 days ago (2 children)

I'm pretty sure most (if not all) juries have to be unanimous to reach a verdict of any kind.

[–] Robust_Mirror@aussie.zone 18 points 2 days ago

For criminal cases yes it has to be unanimous. They might have heard about civil cases sometimes allowing majority/supermajority vote verdicts (allowed in more than half the states).

[–] Kellamity@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It's pretty standard to charge with the most serious things they can and potentially drop/lower the charges before trial. Maybe theyre trying to get a plea deal or disposition and avoid the trial - 'we'll drop terrorism and the death penalty if you plead to first degree murder and life without' or something like that

Or at least they have his legal team spending time knocking down the more superfluous charges instead of dealing with the meat of it all

Obviously I don't know enough about the situation here to know exactly what's up, but yeah

[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The prosecution needs to prove their charges, the defence only needs to knock down the evidence presented. Superfluous charges waste the time of the prosecution.

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[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Maybe a couple more assassinations of CEOs and the only country where this repeatedly happens will finally start looking into ways to prevent this.

Billionaires. The CEOs are still lapdogs. We must make the "invincible dragons" realize that they are vulnerable.

It will take the assassination of a few billionaires for this country to change those laws.

[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Even if the politics doesn't change, enough CEOs getting cast into Hell sure might do the trick. People say that it won't change how companies operate, but I disagree. First, changing CEOs isn't easy for a company. The sudden loss of one is disruptive, and it means they can't implement whatever plans they had for the company. A company with repeated CEO murders is one that will be thrown into chaos. Second, regardless of what shareholders might want, CEOs have to consider their own interests. Even a $10 million salary doesn't mean much if you're dead before you can enjoy it.

[–] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Third: the next day people were getting approved for procedures they were being denied the day before. This was across all insurance companies. It literally changed how these companies operate (at least in the short term) and likely saved lives.

[–] spireghost@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Source? The next day seems way too fast to take effect. It's not like this guy was sending emails directly saying "deny all claims today" even if he is a driving factor for it.

[–] Bigfishbest@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The share value of UHC fell hard after the murder. That is the thing that really makes waves. As you say, losing CEO is costly, to investors and owners, which in the end is what matters most to the owner classes.

(edit typo)

[–] elrik@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Super special emergency line for CEOs because 911 isn't good enough for them.

Is this a thing?

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)
[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Which is ridiculous and more intended as a warning to the public given that the establishments that provide their bodyguards already have these sort of "hotlines" into law enforcement. They are just that afraid.

[–] AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 36 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Highly unusual is an understatement. It's either cruel and unusual punishment, or it's double jeopardy. He's being tried twice for the same crime.

[–] inv3r5ion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 day ago

I support him, but you can be tried at the state and federal level for the same crime. You can’t be charged twice for the same crime at the same level.

[–] takeda@lemm.ee 161 points 2 days ago (7 children)

terrorist murder

If anything, this further shows we are living in two tiered justice system

[–] JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 72 points 2 days ago (2 children)

If anything, Luigi murdered a terrorist.

[–] Jyek@sh.itjust.works 32 points 2 days ago (1 children)

A terrorist is someone who enacts violence against civilians in order to create political change. Not saying Luigi deserves any of this, but if his goal was to make a point to the world about the mistreatment of patients at the hands of insurance companies in order to push change, then the terrorism charge is accurate.

What insurance companies do is far worse than terrorism. They harvest the sick, elderly, and injured for their money in order to sate the capitalist urge to increase revenue for the investors. But that isn't illegal.

[–] peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 28 points 2 days ago

It's a straight up cyberpunk dystopia. Corporations run the world, they provide all the means of being able to survive, and disagreement with it is a crime.

They don't even care about the people inside the corporations themselves, because they're replaceable. It's all functioning to generate wealth for the owners of society.

Fuck, the reason I both loved and hated Cyberpunk: Edgerunners is because it was too real at the beginning.

[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 18 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Naw, the health insurance CEO (I refuse to call it healthcare, because it isn't that) didn't kill people as a political act. He only did it to line his wallet.

[–] Bronzebeard@lemm.ee 18 points 2 days ago (2 children)
[–] ulterno@programming.dev 1 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

No, just a dacoit.
Mercenaries are paid to kill. This one just kills and loots. Kinda like what the GTA guy does.

[–] Womble@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yes that exactly what the professional executive class are, mercenaries for capital (though it cant be mixed up with them also being owners as well as just ridiculously paid frontmen).

[–] WoodScientist@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

In Ye Olden days, there used to be formally separated court systems, one for nobility and one for commoners. Turns out, they just got a lot better at hiding this system.

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[–] TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 27 points 1 day ago

They made it easy for him to plead not guilty, given all the charges they were trying to topple on top of him.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 109 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (6 children)

Literally standard procedure for a criminal trial. I absolutely hate it.

It's predicated on "never admit guilt, so we can wheel and deal in backrooms to make a plea deal." They say plea deals are to keep courts from being packed and backed up, but it's more about punishing the poorest who have no money to fight when they're innocent.

Almost everyone always starts with a plea of Not Guilty. No matter how fuckin guilty they are or not. You could be the guiltiest motherfucker on the planet, and you'll still have your lawyer tell you to plea Not Guilty.

[–] shalafi@lemmy.world 65 points 2 days ago (1 children)

The point in this one is to convince a jury that he's not guilty of the exact charges. His lawyers will surely go the "not terrorism" route, but unfortunately he has other charges. I think the legal term is "stacking"?

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 44 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Yep, they're hitting him with media-generating charges like first degree murder and terrorism, but probably can only make the second degree murder actually stick. That way they can drop the worst charges and still hit him with second degree.

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[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 43 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

Lmao, I defended myself against a bully in school and the pigs didn't even do any investigation and took the school admin's word for it and arrested me for "Agravated Assault"

They then did a "diversion" that basically I have to promise not to commit a crime for 6 months (like bitch, do I look like a fucking criminal to you?) and then case would be dismissed, and crucially, it did not include an admission of guilt, so I took it. But if it had included an admission of guilt, I'd fucking fight that shit to the end. Pull the CCTV, motherfuckers, see if that's enough evidence.

Also, I learned that (via internet searches) if you are under 18, you do not get a right jury trial, but it also simultaneously can potentially have the same impact as an adult conviction. That's was the most bullshit thing I've learned.

Oh wanna know some more bullshit I learned? USCIS can see all juvenile records for the past 5 years, even arrests that didn't result in conviction (or technically, for juveniles, it's called being "adjundicated delinquent"), even if sealed, expunged, or even pardoned, which could come into play if you aren't a citizen (which, thank god figuatively, that I had derived citizenship from my mother's naturalization, imagine the shitshow on the other, even shittier timeline).

(Also, USCIS can see ALL adult records, even arrests that didn't result in conviction, doesn't matter if sealed, expunged, or pardoned. They see it all. Fucking bullshit.)

I did not really had ACAB sentinments before, but now I've been radicalized by the police and I'll fucking say ACAB, and now I'm very sympathetic towards anarchist movements.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 36 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I think the failure of the phrase ACAB is that it pins the problems of the system just on cops. Corrupt lawmakers, judges, district attorneys, prosecutors, and defenders all play into this as well. Lawmakers made the laws defer to cops over citizens, judges treat a cops word as more truthful than a citizens, same with district attorneys and prosecuting attorneys. They're all scratching each others back in a sick system where nearly all of them are essentially above the law. Cops are enabled by all the other groups.

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[–] Modva@lemmy.world 41 points 2 days ago

Terrorist charges?

Rich people justice.

[–] hOrni@lemmy.world 70 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Great, his innocent. Now let's give him back his gun and let him go. Somewhere near Elon Musk, maybe?

[–] shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com 38 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)
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[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 44 points 2 days ago (5 children)

Mad that the grand jury didn't refuse to indict.

Hope the jury nullifies.

If he is found guilty, maybe it'll be time for unrest.

[–] SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 56 points 2 days ago (6 children)

It's already time for unrest.

[–] SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 46 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (5 children)

Looks like it's been time for unrest for over fifty years now, since this kicked off in the early 70's.

It shouldn't have taken a murder to wake people up.

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[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 14 points 2 days ago (6 children)

That doesn't really matter.

A grand jury decides if theres enough evidence for an indictment, not determine guilt. Whether the evidence is enough for conviction, is not up to them. Only half is required to indict. A non-indictment is not an acquital.

Murder has no statute of limitations.

They'll just wait for a different grand jury and get to try to get an indictment again, this time, probably with less media coverage and less scrutiny.

The petit jury, or trial jury, decides if evidence is legit. This is where it really matters.

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