this post was submitted on 11 Jan 2025

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How do I setup a financial account for a unincorporated org? (hexbear.net)

submitted 2 months ago by ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net to c/askchapo@hexbear.net

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I've know some local orgs that could absolutely make use of a shared bank account for accepting and dispersing donations for mutual aid. The problem is these orgs are far too small to incorporate into a legal entity, have a stable mailing address, or even an official phone number. Only thing that's stable is an email address.

Most common solution I've seen is one person just has all the money. They setup a PayPal account and are responsible for receiving and dispersing all funds. This obviously isn't very secure. First there is the obvious risk of embezzlement. But assuming you've picked a trustworthy comrade, they're now more exposed and there's severe consequences if something happens to them. Like if this person is running a bail fund they might get hit with bs RICO charges and you lose all your donations.

I've tried to setup a PayPal using a google voice number but PayPal seems to recognize and block that. Crypto is supposed to address this issue but we still need dollars in and dollars out so that might be more complicated than worthwhile.

Any ideas or experience with this issue?

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[–] BobDole@hexbear.net 12 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I’ve had some minor experience with an org that’s just barely big enough to have a bank account. Getting all the paperwork together to set it up is such a pain in the ass, and then when you elect a new treasurer it’s almost like starting the whole process over again. We used the Bank of Labor for a bit, thinking they would be sympathetic and not a total pain in the ass, but it was a worse experience than just using a local credit union.

A big part is that the American legal system is set up to only support bourgeois institutions, and makes it difficult to have a democratic organization.

EDIT: to actually answer, if you’re looking to set up a bank account, you should start by going to a local credit union and asking them what information they need to set one up, so that you can then structure an organization to meet the legal requirements

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 9 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Like if this person is running a bail fund they might get hit with bs RICO charges and you lose all your donations.

Crypto is supposed to address this issue but we still need dollars in and dollars out so that might be more complicated than worthwhile.

We probably really should encourage the widespread adoption of monero in leftist spaces. Obviously it runs some risks, with trust and whatnot, but if we were all used to using monero then the more vulnerable orgs could be working entirely in monero with individuals doing their own conversion to and from cash. Like, I don't know how bad things need to get before people realize that this is necessary, but the time to do it was probably years ago.

And I say this as someone that doesn't use crypto.

[–] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Why Monero in particular? From what I've heard monero is the "more-anonymous crypto" but not much else beyond that. I'd be more inclined to choose a lite-coin or even a stable-coin since we don't was to waste capital gambling.

individuals doing their own conversion to and from cash

How were you imagining that working? We'd still have to accept donations in dollars so that'd be one person's PayPal account with their name on it getting all the donations.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

@RedWizard@hexbear.net as well.

Again, I'm not a crypto guy, so someone better versed can probably give more info, but it's my understanding that monero is the crypto we were told Bitcoin was supposed to be. It's anonymous, nigh untraceable (plus, the more people that use it the less vulnerable it would be to theoretical methods), and because it's largely mined with CPUs it's less prone to speculative turbulence.

We need to create a parallel infrastructure, not just of mutual aid, but an economy between us which is less vulnerable to bougie interference. Nintendo shutting down emulators, piracy sites being attacked by DMCA, TikTok attacked by the gov/Twitter/facebook, being good examples of that. Imo, monero, along with tor, pgp, and federation based apps are the way to go with doing so.

How were you imagining that working? We'd still have to accept donations in dollars so that'd be one person's PayPal account with their name on it getting all the donations.

I'm saying as an end game, we need to move away from accepting donations in dollars and move to monero entirely. My point is we should be popularizing and normalizing monero usage so people are more comfortable doing their own conversion to and from monero to make donations/ receive aid. A vulnerable org should never touch anything traceable. Obviously, cash would be preferable but the working class is global, and if we're to leverage the masses, we need something borderless and digital.

Am I making sense, or are these ramblings of an old man?

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

No I can see what you mean. The hard part of the whole crypto economy though is that last mile, turning it into local currency and using it to get the supplies you need.

I feel like there are tax implications for getting cash in exchange for crypto. There is probably a minimum or threshold where getting cash becomes taxable. Which could land you in a weird gray zone.

But I do see what you're saying. I remember the promise of early bitcoin. It was exciting. I still have about $1000 in bitcoin that I periodically spend. So far its got me several years of Mullvad access, premium access to annas-archive, and some odds and ends services. I've donated some of it here and there too. The market volatility is what obviously makes doing any of that risky to the people who accept it.

I never hear anything about monero which might be a good thing. Its price graph looks pretty stable too.

I'm also rambling at this point lol. That last mile though is the most critical part. I wonder if monero is exchanged at those crypto ATMs.

[–] JoeByeThen@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

Oh, yeah that last mile is always going to be a pain that can only really be eased with mass adoption, so you have to do it less. Also, it's like Linux where there still needs to be a lot of simplification and UI done for the common person, imo.

Also, again I'm not a crypto guy so it's entirely possible that monero isnt the solution we're looking for; It's just what I've gathered from casual searching over the years while thinking about this problem.

I feel like there are tax implications for getting cash in exchange for crypto.

Yeah, I'm not sure, because you're supposed to be paying taxes on any other cash you get as well. Like PayPal sending out 1099s if you do enough transactions. I think it's just a matter of declaring it? Like it's not illegal to use crypto, yet, so if more opportunities can be made for people being paid in monero for legitimate reasons that would help run cover for the subversive ones. And again, ideally the vulnerable org is never doing any cashing out and the people who are cashing out are doing so mixed in with other everyday transactions.

What we really need are for leftists who are familiar with crypto to sit down and hash this shit out. Figure out secure best practices for getting and converting monero, how to make transactions, etc. I know the one place I used to see it regularly discussed was for folks DIYing HRT, which given how things are going is probably going to be more necessary moving forward. Unfortunately, crypto is such a toxic concept nowadays.

I wonder if monero is exchanged at those crypto ATMs.

From cursory searches it looks like you gotta convert it before ATM use, but once you convert there's a lot that can be done since BTC and other coins are so widespread now. There's a couple places I've seen where you can buy gift cards for big places like Amazon and Walmart, which for like mutual aid use is pretty useful. Just skip the cash altogether.

Idk, again (I say for the millionth time, 😅) not a crypto guy so I don't have all the answers. But it's definitely something that needs to be thought about in leftist spaces.

[–] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 3 points 2 months ago

I wonder if monero is exchanged at those crypto ATMs.

I suspect they might. I'm more worried about what exchanges/nodes they connect to though.

[–] RedWizard@hexbear.net 4 points 2 months ago

School me on monero. I know almost nothing about it. What makes it the right crypto for this application in your mind?

I'm familiar with the workings of the underlying tech generally if that helps.

[–] infuziSporg@hexbear.net 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

You might find a 501c3 that will have the ability to "sponsor" you, and have a babk account suffix dexicated to your micro-org. If you're a bail fund, though, that might be a liability, and attract the ire of the Once and Future President on that nonprofit.

[–] ZWQbpkzl@hexbear.net 5 points 2 months ago

My local DSA chapter is absolutely capable of doing this and there are groups that aren't a big risk. But most of these groups have strong anarchist tendencies and take their autonomy seriously for more than ideological reasons.