This is what I love about the fediverse. On the Lemmy side we've seen it in action with lemmygrad. Private platforms need moderators to do that, which let's be real, doesn't generate enough profit to be worth their time...
this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2023
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Hmm, Twitter used to at least try before. Advertisers don't like Eat Fresh! Running below a nazi tweet. There are at least some market forces keeping them at bay, which is why their social platforms keep failing.
Nothing Beats communities that are willing to oust bad elements, though
Advertisers didn't like their ads running next to a nazi tweet until they saw how much money they could make off nazis after one of them was made potus.
Nope, they still don't. Except pillow guy. Hence why the nazi networks keep falling and why x is failing.
It’s a reason Twitter is failing, but it’s not the reason. Even without the nazis they’d be struggling because their owner just keeps making bad financial and business decisions like not paying rent, trying to rebrand, and illegal firings
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platforms driven by user created content like the nazis, and other extreme right ideologues, because the audience for them consumes that content like religious zealots going to services, getting in their daily requirements of indoctrination. This inflates user engagement. However, the businesses advertising their services, and products, on those platforms do not like their company being associated with these people.
It's nice when the primary goal of the owners and mods and aligns with the users.
Chasing profit is the worst mechanism in so many cases. One of those cases is when competition is by nature very limited. Social media kind of fails unless you have very few places to go. And you're locked in if your friends are all on the same offering.
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Lemmy world just removed their non-discrimination clause and one of the admins is (poorly) justifying it in a thread about it. I wouldn’t cheer quite yet.
This is only a problem because lemmy.world has become one of the centralized hubs for Lemmy, which means that jettisoning them has a larger impact. The failing of lemmy.world is a reminder that we should be intentionally spreading out to smaller instances, that way a bad admin/instance can be cut off without losing much value. Additionally, by lemmy.world/lemmy.ml/etc having such a grip on the core of Lemmy, they are emboldened to make bad changes without fearing consequences.
Totally. I would love to stand up an instance but it’s a little above my tech knowledge and, frankly, I don’t want to have to think about the legal aspects of what happens on it.
If I ever somehow did it, I would probably not allow photos/videos. Disable downvotes. Things like that.
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Agreed. In order to keep a upvote/downvote based platform from becoming toxic, a lot of good moderation is required. Lemmy.world is definitely not doing that.
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PREPARE FOR DEFEDERATION
EXTERMINATE! EXTERMINATE!!
So if I build my instance upstairs I’m good?
Depends on the instance. Some have the BlueSky response. Some have the Xitter response.
Don’t believe me, ask a black Mastodon user.
Yes, but those instances are normally the ones that get blocked by half of the web.
No I mean instances like mastodon.world who do ok moderating their own users, but are very poor at moderating the instances that federate with them. So any minority users who joins mastodon.world can still be (and is, I’ve seen it) subject to the worst bigotry on the fediverse.
I'm just so tired of watching green mods make the same mistakes. "It's not my job to weigh in on debates or tell people what to think." No, but it's your job to reduce disruption in a community. If someone comes in going "being gay is a choice if you ask me," they have about 30 seconds to clarify their position or they're gone from my discord server and generally that won't do it. We have a lot of LGBT folks who have NO desire to deal with those people in a the little corner of friends we've created. That person is not entitled to their time and attention. It is our job to look out for the best interests of all our users, yet we categorically see mods get bogged down by a handful of incredibly disruptive attention seekers/combative personalities that make it shitty for everyone else. It's so predictable at this point.
We banned someone a few months ago from our discord who had some of the best insights about gaming I've ever seen. The dude was remarkable. But my god he was such a jerk! He kept being such an ass to people who disagreed with him. "That's just a brain dead take." "People who like that have no taste so frankly I don't care what you or they think." Just constant antagonism that halted all conversation and made people feel like crap. So we booted him! We asked him to stop, he didn't, and his disruptions just became unwelcome. We didn't play rules lawyer with him or debate things. We said stop, he didn't, that was the end of it, and while I miss his insights the community is noticeably better without him.
Most mods aren't clueless. They know bigotry is occurring in their communities. Yet they too often just won't be proactive about it because the behavior doesn't overtly violate the rules. Don't let bad actors weaponize your own rules against you!
Another thing is that some people are loud specifically to drown out other's voices.
That's why true free speech can not be a free-for-all, you must put a dampener on those people and it doesn't matter how closely they technically follow the rules if they do not follow the spirit and cause the quality and mood to degrade with their presence.
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That's one of the current weaknesses of the fediverse right now. Devs are working on more comprehensive moderation tools, but it's all under development.
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This is why, in the case of Mastodon, it's best to join a smaller instance so it can be more easily moderated.
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Is there a way to see which instances a Mastodon instance has defederated with? For lemmy instances, for example, you can go to /instances to see a list of other connected and blocked instances.
you can go to /instances to see a list of other connected and blocked instances.
I just did, and noticed a bunch of supposedly-federated mastodon instances, but in reality I've never seen them in my 'all' stream.
Are they not supposed to show up there?
Lemmy uses a feature called "groups" to denote the community a post is in. Mastodon doesn't support groups yet. Once it does, I would think those posts may federate with Lemmy.
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On desktop there should be a small "about" link in the bottom left, from which there is a "moderated servers" dropdown menu where you can see defederated servers. I don't see anywhere to view the servers you ARE federated with, but if it's listed at ~~Mastodon's official website~~ (whoops, I actually meant this)it's probably in.
I don't see anything on the official Masto app, but that app is just missing a ton of functionality in general.
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It is pretty fucking cool tbh
Hexbear: click bang
Bang bang bang bang bang bang click click click
Hell yeah
sound
Hey there's a Naz- BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG
also if you look at the main thread not on hexbear, you can see them complaining about lemmygrad being nazis ☠ im glad we have filtered idiots out of this instance
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Is mastodon good? I use lemmy but as I never used twitter I also never use mastodon so idk if im losing something. I never understood the appeal of twitter.
Just commenting to say I feel the exact same way. I am curious if mastodon is something worth getting into?
I think reddit/lemmy are good if you enjoy following communities. Twitter/mastodon are good if you prefer following specific people.
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I would describe it as "what if Tumblr decided to have the layout of Twitter?" The interface looks and feels like Twitter, but since there's no algorithm people will post the most raw shit. My feed is one part guinea pig videos, one part OSR Dnd memes, one part people learning to code and sharing their early janky work with pride, and one part entirely from one queer anarchist TTRPG dev struggling with medical bills and the fucked USian Healthcare system.
The most trouble you'll have is deciding which instance to settle down in. Self-hosting is really not reasonable for Mastodon, since the local feed is pretty important.
Masto doesn't have outright nazis they just have neoliberal fascists, and let me tell you, it has a LOT of them.
Mastodon is a very feels good sanitized version of what is going on in the world right now.
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I am still in the beginning of using Mastodon. How does it detect Nazi like speech and what does it consider Nazi like speech?
Since I is decentralized, it is upto the intances. There is no central authority to eject an instance. Rather other instances individually block the instances they find objectionable to their own criterion.
At basic its that. Inpractice moderation federations and coalitions etc. have formed among instances of "we maintain joint blocking list and any of us can suggest new additions to it".
Due to this one can get ejected from rather sizeable swath, if one one the moderation federations puts one on block list and that is pretty much as far as an "you have 24 hours or we boot you". You get booted from all the instances part of that federation/coalition.
Plus stuff like just sources/authors trusted by various instances. "If this guy puts an instance on their published black list, we block. So far that guy has done good job with his list". Ofcourse instance can at any point decide to not trust that list author anymore.
So there is no one "how mastodon does it". Infact this is the one area where "on what instance are you" matters. Since how your home instance decides to do moderation and blocking, that is how your blocking happens. Plus ones personal additions on top.
Mastodon has a moderation action feature, where one can see listing of what instances and user have been blocked or other moderation action taken. There is explanation field there also for moderator to say "why" but obviously that is upto instance on what their policy is on how exacting their moderation documentation policy is.
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How do I know if an instance is "clean" before I join it?
One indication is that it isn't blocked by many other instances. You can see that (and other info) on this page: https://github.com/maltfield/awesome-lemmy-instances
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