this post was submitted on 24 Jan 2025

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Actually Infuriating

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Why does EU let Microsoft break Linux on dual-booting computers? Why let home robots sabotage enemy products in people's homes? (lemmy.world)

submitted 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) by Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world to c/actually_infuriating@lemmy.world

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Every time Windows updates itself, my Linux disappears. Actually, it's just hidden, only the boot menu was overwritten. You need a computer maintenance technician to make a new boot menu. I use a USB stick with a live Linux with automatic boot repair tools.

Recently, Windows has become resistant to Boot Repair Disk. Now I have to open computer firmware by tapping "Esc" right after power-up, then select "Boot options", then "Linux".

EU must ban all US-made smart products for its own safety. All closed-source software and electronics that can be used for strategic manipulation and sabotage -- Google, Apple, Amazon, all of it.

We have functional, clunky open-source software that could easily be fitted for any purpose with the money we waste propping up foreign monopolies sabotaging us. Europe has taken a huge risk. I suspect bribery.

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[–] werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago

I got do pissed one day that I figured out a good work around. Get a second drive just big enough for Linux and a third just big enough for windows. Then just remove windows and Linux from your big "must be safe" drive. Now install Linux on your Linux drive and Windows on your windows drive. Next, go to Fstab on Linux and Mount your big drive as either home for all users or a single user's home. Similarly go to Windows and mount the Linux home drive. You'll probably need to install drivers to even see the thing. I don't mix my Linux home. Instead I have a small drive for windows to fuck up shit into (which is what it does). Finally use the Linux bootloader and tell Windows to stay in its fucking place or shut the fuck up. It works.

[–] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

The fix for this is pretty simple. Uninstall Windows and never look back. I haven't used any Microsoft products in years now.

[–] LandedGentry@lemmy.zip 2 points 7 hours ago

Removing windows, like putting on an ad blocker, is just basic security at this point.

[–] vala@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago

This meme got me. Really do be that way.

[–] secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world 6 points 14 hours ago

They are doing everyone a favor. Why woukd you want that shit on your computer at all?

Or if you simply must use Windows, why not use KVM?

This seems like Windows developers doing everyone a solid: "You sure you want this shit to have root access over everyrhing?" they are asking.

[–] ober9000@lemmy.world 11 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I mean Microsofts programming is also just shit. I remember installing Windows 7 back then. The computer had an SSD and a HDD in it with old files. I later removed the HDD and it wouldn't boot. Because even though I installed Windows on the SSD, it put the bootloader onto the HDD.

[–] kadup@lemmy.world 9 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Windows still does that to this day. For some random reason, it will often create the EFI boot partition in a different drive than the one you're installing Windows to.

[–] Ashelyn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 12 hours ago

Yeah... It's typically best to only connect the drive you want the OS on, then add the other(s) post install

[–] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago

what is windows?

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 14 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I'm surprised that Windows overrides the UEFI partition at every boot. They should not be allowed to do this.

But also, i'm kinda surprised that Windows allows the wubi.exe Ubuntu installer to write to the UEFI boot menu.

I agree that better regulations need to be put in place. I too suspect bribery. How else would you explain that we're getting surveillance package instead of this?

[–] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 82 points 1 day ago (6 children)

FWIW dual booting from the same physical drive is never a good idea in my experience. Even Linux-Linux dual booting is just asking for problems when one of them updates the grub configs and messes it up for the other.

Save yourself some sanity and move your Windows install to a new drive.

[–] NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

I tried to do a dual boot from 2 hard drives (windows main), had to restore the Linux side early on, using its built in restore tool, and the computer would not boot after beyond a black screen without pulling the battery for the BIOS off the motherboard. No boot menus or firmware or bios menus were accessible until I did that.

That's the worst oh shit did I fully break my computer moment ever.

[–] gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

That's actually why i don't auto-mount /bin in linux. It only messes things up when it updates the kernel.

[–] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 5 points 23 hours ago

As someone who just started using Linux regularly, this seems bonkers to me.

Unless you're building your own kernel and compiling apps from scratch, why would anything in /bin break?

[–] biokernel@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 1 day ago

and when one drive fails you can boot from the other drive and repair your system

[–] InFerNo@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

One if my laptops only has 1 bay for a drive unfortunately. Currently going through the motion OP describes. Updating Windows and repairing the bootloader. It's still MBR, not uefi, too.

[–] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 2 points 18 hours ago

Does it have an optical disk drive? You could replace that with an HDD caddy if you really want an extra disk

[–] mildlyusedbrain@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

This is really the advice to take. I tried dual boot and went back to Windows due to it nuking grub.

Tried again after buying a new SSD and haven't had an issues since

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[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 35 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Safest thing to do is run windows only in a VM or container with Linux as the host OS and pass the hardware required in. Windows actually runs better this way and can't mess with your Linux install.

[–] xyz1195@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

"That's not how anything works" meme material right here.

How can literally anything run better on a vm compared to physical?

[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 2 points 20 hours ago

To understand why windows runs better in a vm or container, you'd have to understand how the windows kernels work... And that means understanding how all the code from every previous Windows kernel that is still in windows 11 works. Since they never did a full rewrite. For example you'd have to understand why blue screens of death happen, and how windows telemetry works, what code from windows 3.1 still exist, and what windows 11 really does when it tries to serve you ads. I'm not qualified, and as far as I can tell no one at Microsoft is either.

I know your wrote some kind of gotcha but you really should try it and see for yourself if you actually need windows for anything. At a minimum I guarantee it's more stable.

[–] Khanzarate@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago (5 children)

How does it run better?

I've avoided it specifically for performance reasons, this is new to me, for one program that WINE doesn't like.

[–] marcos@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

Linux manages disk access way better than Windows.

But anything that depends on CPU, memory, or IO lattency will get slower.

[–] CubitOom@infosec.pub 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I've not actually benchmarked it. Although others have and I couldn't really tell you why but windows spends a lot less time and resources trying to manage itself when it's in a VM or container. It's just much snapier and even when passing in a GPU to play games it preforms well.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago (1 children)

None of this has ever been my experience

[–] S_H_K@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

AFAIK Virtualization is very Dependant on hardware. Some processors are not optimized for virtualization at all so even if you have great video cards or anything the virtualization could still run like shit for you and run seamlessly for someone with less specs. Don't ask me which ones are good I learnt this the hard way while trying to use a celeron to run a VM.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 1 points 14 hours ago

Well, to some degree I'm sure you're right. But the thing is, I've used VMs off and on for at least 15 years on AMD, Intel, and ARM cpus. My universal experience has been that software running within those VMs, even on an incredibly fast host machine, runs so slow it's painful. I have mostly used VirtualBox which I know a lot of people hate but it's been the only one I have found that usually "just works". So I dunno. If you have a better suggestion for a VM host that runs fast on linux (x86) I'd love to hear it because I'm currently trying to permanently ditch windows and VMs could be a part of that because I do want access to Photoshop and a few other Adobe apps. But thusfar when I've tried that, the slowness has been unbearable.

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[–] endeavor@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Win11 bricked my linux install usb. Microsoft also colluded with intel to make intel cpus appear to perform better by sandbagging AMD cpus.

Bill Gates may be a nice guy but his company has become trash.

[–] MushroomsEverywhere@lemmy.world 4 points 23 hours ago

I'm just gonna put this here for no reason. https://youtu.be/lFS9DFXtj1M

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 day ago

Bill Gates may have become a nice guy but his company is trash.

Better, no?

[–] heavydust@sh.itjust.works 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

has become trash

It was always trash and always fucked with Linux and other OS. The only solution is no Windows.

[–] MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 day ago* (last edited 17 hours ago) (1 children)

Sad thing is, the NT kernel itself is POSIX and compatible and all. But the UI on top doesn't support half of it.

Edit: it was POSIX and OS/2 compatibel, then they removed it.

[–] renzev@lemmy.world 4 points 18 hours ago

The funny thing is, as far as I can tell, the only reason why NT has a posix subsystem is to comply with some weird government regulation.

From Wikipedia:

The NT POSIX subsystem was included with the first versions of Windows NT because of 1980s US federal government requirements listed in Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS) 151-2. Briefly, these documents required that certain types of government purchases be POSIX-compliant, so that if Windows NT had not included this subsystem, computing systems based on it would not have been eligible for some government contracts.

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[–] Lazycog@sopuli.xyz 21 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

I agree with your post but I must ask - is that King Charles taking the ~~wheel~~ UEFI Boot partition?

Thanks for the confirmations. It indeed seems to be King Charles taking the UEFI Boot Partition. ~~Microsoft~~ Monarchy at it again taking what belongs to the people.

[–] Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

That it is, old Chucky Sausagefingers

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[–] RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I use a Dualboot with Windows 10 (there are unfortunately some very few games I couldn't get to run with Linux, otherwise I had removed Windows a long time ago) but I never ran into this problem. Someone here wrote about efimgr, could be that I installed that by accident and this helps. I just followed some random tutorial back then.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 4 points 1 day ago (4 children)

Did you try the tinkering recommendations on protonDB? They're great. Might be able to help you if you hadn't tried them.

[–] RedstoneValley@sh.itjust.works 3 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

Yes, I did. Most of the time that works, but there is one game which I absolutely love, Space Engineers, and I could not get that to work with any amount of tinkering.

Edit: I just tried it again. Installation of Proton GE was necessary and had some hiccups. Used command line values from ProtonDB. Space Engineers kind of works now. Performance isn't great though, some sudden FPS drops.

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[–] ThePantser@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (1 children)

EU must ban all US-made smart products for its own safety. All closed-source software and electronics that can be used for strategic manipulation and sabotage -- Google, Apple, Amazon, all of it.

Well this solves your first issue, Microsoft is US based. So just uninstall windows.

[–] dust_accelerator@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 1 day ago

"Computers are like air conditioning.

They become useless when you open windows"

some Finnish dude

[–] yessikg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Windows 11 gets worse with every update, might start running it in a VM

[–] rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago

On my laptop I need windows for an OBDII dongle, luckily the software works fine in a VM.

[–] redxef@feddit.org 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

efibootmgr is your friend. Boot into linux and use it to set the boot records as you want, in the order that you want them.

Also, I have heard from a bunch of people, that this can be mitigated by having separate EFI partitions for Linux and Windows. That means one EFI partition per physical drive. You can go as far as having the EFI partition on different media than the Linux install.

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[–] HornedMeatBeast@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago

I run Windows 10 on one NVME drive and Linux on a different one, but whenever I reinstall Windows it completely boffs my Linux installation.

If I reinstall Linux then my Windows installation is gone.

Took me a while but it seems that Windows is using my Linux NVME for its boot partition and so far the only way I've been able to avoid this is to unplug my Linux drive when reinstalling Windows.

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