this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2025
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[–] thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

use truly foss apps. Anything that’s has a corp built around it is going to enshitify

[–] dantheclamman@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Self-hosting and FOSS are the way to go. We saw this demonstrated when Raspberry Pi started acting stupidly as a company. There are so many alternatives that it is easy to switch. Unfortunately some things are pretty tough to self-host, like email and anonymizing VPN. But there are a lot of low-hanging fruit that makes it less painful to divest from bad companies.

[–] Pulsar@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I wonder what is going to be Firefox reason to even exist if we already have Chrome and Edge?

It's a generally recognised principle in economics that we want competition to take place, and for consumers to have a choice - for a plethora of reasons too large to list here. The most important IMO is a political one though: we don't want monopolies for the same reason we don't want monarchies and dictatorships. Being the sole provider of any very important product puts an obscene amount of power in the hand of a single corporation (or a handful of them). We never want that much power to be so concentrated in so few individuals, because it's fundamentally injust, and always leads to catastrophe. Also consider that if that power is a corporation or a "private" individual, they're not accountable to anyone but their shareholders (who, in turn never want the corp to be anything other than a money making machine). Even a dictator is more accountable to his subjects than a multinational corporation is to anyone. So there you have it, that's why we need alternatives.

[–] Jhex@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

PLENTY of reasons if they oppose enshitification... but if they embrace it, then yes, they'll just be another pimple in the ass of enshitificated software

[–] Botunda@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Fucking look at YOU Gogole... Do no evil my ass! [youwerethechosenone.gif]

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[–] Katzenmann@feddit.org 15 points 1 day ago (3 children)

I went all-in on proton a few years ago but I dislike the direction in which they are going now. Does anybody have tips on how (and where) to switch smoothly. I could self host email but I've heard that it's a big hassle

[–] frezik@midwest.social 5 points 1 day ago

I've been eyeing FastMail.

Self hosting is almost impossible with email these days. Places like Gmail and Outlook are going to consider you automatically suspicious until you've proven otherwise. Can't prove otherwise until you have a lot of legit email going through. The only way to do that is to attach the domain to a service that's already proven.

This isn't even getting into the configuration issues of running an email server without it becoming a spam relay as soon as it's turned on.

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[–] Darkhoof@lemmy.world 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What happened with Proton?

[–] phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago (3 children)

The proton CEO praised Donald Trump's choice for who would lead the government's antitrust division, and now most of Lemmy think they're a Nazi company or something.

Just typical cancel culture bullshit. Where people choose to be outraged rather than attempting to understand a situation.

[–] JustAnotherKay@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

They doubled down by leaving federated services in favor of Reddit, which certainly isn't a great look imo

[–] wabasso@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yeah I agree it’s been an extreme reaction. Perfect is the enemy of good. Maybe most proton users will be willing to seek out even lesser known alternatives and even self host. But if you’re going to talk to a casual user about getting off of Gmail and then you say “Oh but not Proton” then they’re just going to stick with Gmail.

[–] Botunda@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

and even self host.

You have a guide about how to self-host an anonymous VPN?

[–] commander@lemmings.world 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

🤦 To be expected, at this point.

The loyalty the left expects from others but never gives in return is truly a sight to behold. Essentially it boils down to "agree with everything they say and if you disagree with one thing, keep it to yourself or else you're a nazi."

[–] NeilBru@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

The left has always been hindered by the No True Scotsman fallacy.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I mean, someone made Graphene OS, a fork of Android. Surely someone can also do that for Firefox, right? 👀

[–] NewDay@lemmy.world 32 points 1 day ago (8 children)

There are several Firefox forks. Waterfox (based in Europe UK), Librewolf, Zen etc.

[–] twoface@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago

Just chiming in to recommend Floorp. Have been using it for a few months now and really like it :D

[–] AdamUllstrom@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I have been loving LibreWolf for a while now. Can really recommend it!

[–] Botunda@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Can you get uBlock and bitwarden on there?

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[–] nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 90 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Isn't one of the point of the phenom of enshifitication that it's near ubiquitous? The reason it can continue is because it reached a critical mass, leaving us few workable alternatives, like a symptom of monopolization. I'd wager some companies feel like they won't survive if they don't keep up, not sure if that assessment is true but I bet many think it is.

[–] blandfordforever@lemm.ee 101 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Enshitified product exists - > good alternative arises to meet demand - > good alternative becomes popular - > good alternative either becomes enshitified to maximize profits or is purchased by owner of original enshitified product.

The capitalist way.

[–] nomugisan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 23 points 2 days ago

FOSS FOSS FOSS and self-host.

[–] perishthethought@lemm.ee 44 points 2 days ago

the circle of online life

Get used to it. Nothing lasts forever.

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[–] paequ2 54 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (11 children)

Browsers I tried yesterday (on Linux):

  • Zen: neat, but the UI is too different for my taste
  • Floorp: also neat, but features I don't use
  • Waterfox: sweet spot for me

Librewolf and Waterfox seem pretty similar on paper. I went with Waterfox cuz idk. So far, Waterfox seems to be a drop-in replacement. I haven't noticed any problems with websites and haven't run into any bugs.

One note about Waterfox is that I would have liked if it was added to the official Arch Linux repos. I installed fine with the AUR, but still.

Bonus: Waterfox is available on Android! 🥳

[–] kilgore_trout@feddit.it 22 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Zen: is Firefox

Floorp: is Firefox

Waterfox: is Firefox

Librewolf: is Firefox

They are all dependent on Mozilla and its choices.

[–] paequ2 26 points 1 day ago

There is some degree of independence. For example, if Mozilla releases some super evil patch tomorrow, I'm pretty sure everyone would just patch it out immediately. In fact, this is what most derivatives seem to do, patch out the ad/telemetry stuff.

But yeah, these are all modified Firefox browsers. Hopefully, nobody was thinking these were unique, new, browsers.

[–] lefixxx@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

No, being a fork doesn't mean it's the same browser.

[–] Thekingoflorda@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

There is currently no comptetive engine that isn’t owned/developed by a big company. Ladybird is slowly getting there, but it’s gonna take a while. Until then gecko engine is OK for now. It’s all opensource so we know when that’s no longer the case.

[–] apostrofail@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Ladybird’s communications are locked to proprietary, ‘enshittified’ platforms in Discord & GitHub.

[–] victorz@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

One note about Waterfox is that I would have liked if it was added to the official Arch Linux repos. I installed fine with the AUR, but still.

Available on Flathub.

I tend to go with Flathub before the AUR, if available. 👍

[–] gamer@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago (5 children)

I tend to go with Flathub before the AUR, if available.

This is the correct way to Linux in 2025

[–] far_university190@feddit.org 0 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Not for firefox, critical firefox security feature not available in flatpak: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1756236

[–] gamer@lemm.ee 1 points 6 hours ago

This is FUD. It definitely is not a "critical" security feature. Firefox flatpak can't currently do its own internal sandboxing of subprocesses via namespaces, but it does do seccomp bpf filtering. That's in addition to the standard sandboxing of flatpak itself, which is implemented using namespaces anyways.

If you are extra paranoid, you can tweak the flatpak's permissions to harden the sandboxing via your distro's flatpak settings app.

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[–] bennypr0fane@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The meme makes it seem lime there's some causal relationship though: because we tried to avoid big corp products and dampen enshittification, the alternatives we started to seek are going bad? I don't think so. The world at large is going to shit in a general stream of shitfulness, but I don't think we caused that development by trying to evade the shit.

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