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The president’s comment that he has “no confidence” in the civilian death toll in Gaza provided by Palestinians incensed community leaders.

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[–] Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world 9 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (2 children)

There really are no winners here.

Let's be realistic. Hamas fucked around and found out. You don't go around provoking a regional superpower with decades-old guns and improvised weapons. There was never a situation where Israel wasn't going to go in and curb stomp them in response. Israel has always been open about this.

But the response they gave is beyond inhumane. They've decided that the best course of action is to just "kill 'em all and let God sort it out". The vast majority of their targets so far have been civilian targets, and they defend their actions by essentially saying that since they can't tell the difference between Hamas and the civilians, they're just going to mow down everybody. Hospitals have been bombed. Supplies have been all but cut off. Civilian vehicles targeted on video, with the IDF's official response being barely more than "sucks to be them." Thousands of civilians dead, and Israel's response is to say "we're just getting started" and advancing a ground attack.

There is no justification for that response. None. If Israel had any chance of getting regional or global support for their actions, they pissed that away the second they thought bombing a hospital was a good idea. If they think that indiscriminately bombing civilian targets is going to magically stop their enemies from interfering, they thought wrong (as evidenced by the fighting along the Lebanese border). If anything, Israel just gave them the justification that they have been looking for and probably just made their own situation exponentially worse.

At this point, I really do believe that Biden needs to withdraw all but humanitarian support from Israel. Helping to arm Israel while they commit genocide in real time isn't going to help our position with allies in the middle east. And neither side are exactly saints here. The US should take this into consideration, withdraw military support for Israel, offer humanitarian aid to civilians in both Israel and Gaza, and say they no longer take any position on the conflict outside of protecting US interests.

I would think it would take a hell of a lot to make a terrorist organization like Hamas look like the sympathetic victim. And while I'm not saying they are, Israel seems to be speedrunning their attempts to make them look like they are.

[–] AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Israel doesn't need or want global support, because they know they've got the unwavering support of the only country that matters, the United States. Shit, our own government covered up when Israel attacked us on purpose and killed a bunch of sailors. If they're willing to not only forgive, but go to great lengths to conceal acts of war by Israel against the United States, then there isn't anything they could do to Arab countries they've invaded that would push the US away.

[–] alcyoneous@midwest.social 5 points 10 months ago

Wow, I had no clue about the USS Liberty incident but that seems pretty damming.

[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I agree with you on everything except that Hamas are terrorists. Hamas are 85% orphans as a result of past Israeli attacks on Palestinians, they are an indigenous resistance to a foreign invader.

in 1956 there was a massacre in Gaza and there was no Hamas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khan_Yunis_massacre

there have been numerous massacres by Israel, it is about time Palestinians fought back

[–] Nightwingdragon@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I agree with you on everything except that Hamas are terrorists. Hamas are 85% orphans as a result of past Israeli attacks on Palestinians, they are an indigenous resistance to a foreign invader.

Orphans don't launch unprovoked attacks that kill thousands of people and take hundreds of hostages. I'm not saying I in any way agree with Israel's response, but pretending Hamas are just a bunch of innocent victims borders on insulting.

[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 0 points 10 months ago

Hamas is a legitimate indigenous resistance to a brutal occupation and blockade. Most of the people who were killed by Hamas were adults and half were active military.

You should listen to Gideon Levy speaking here in 2015 to learn something about how fascist and racist Israel really is and why resistance will always be inevitable: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/videos/international/israel-journalist-gideon-levys-old-video-calling-out-netanyahu-and-occupation-of-palestine-gaza-goes-viral/videoshow/105071938.cms

[–] Chuymatt@artemis.camp 9 points 10 months ago (1 children)

The image I have is a GIF of Q laying in a sultry manner on the bridge of the Enterprise. So bizarre.

[–] PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 months ago

That could have been much worse for you.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 8 points 10 months ago (2 children)

This is the best summary I could come up with:


The open disdain toward Biden from many in a reliably Democratic bloc is among the many signs the conflict is quickly remaking U.S. domestic politics, with public fury over a Hamas attack that killed 1,400 Israelis colliding with the horror of entire families in the Gaza Strip being wiped out in Israel’s retaliatory strikes.

Incensed U.S. Arab and Muslim advocacy groups this week called Biden’s remarks about the death count dangerous, and some prominent voices from those communities chimed in on social media, saying that the president had lost them and that they were considering sitting out the 2024 election.

When word got out that the president wanted to meet with community leaders — ones approved by senior staffers — national activists immediately began working the phones to pressure invitees to decline or to accept only on the condition that Biden answer for his remarks about Palestinian deaths.

Two days later, the president made the comments questioning the accuracy of Palestinian casualties at a time when Arabic-language TV channels were showing nonstop footage of lifeless, dust-covered children being pulled from the rubble after Israeli strikes.

Contacted by The Post about the meeting, Ellison said in an email, “Muslim community leaders told President Biden that the suffering of innocent Gazans trying to survive in extremely difficult circumstances has actually increased the likelihood of Islamophobic attacks in the United States.

“It’s really crazy to me that the Democratic party destroyed 20-years … worth of good will with Muslims and Arabs in just 2 weeks, losing an entire generation that was raised in the progressive coalition, possibly forever,” Eman Abdelhadi, a University of Chicago professor of comparative human development who studies Palestinian Americans, wrote Thursday on X, formerly Twitter.


The original article contains 2,396 words, the summary contains 286 words. Saved 88%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[–] bingbong@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 10 months ago

"Democrats alienate their voters for the umpteenth time"

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 10 months ago (4 children)

they were considering sitting out the 2024 election

This is the single most idiotic thing you could do in response.

This may be horrible action from Biden, but throwing away their votes may as well be a vote for Republicans.

And I assure you, they will do much worse

[–] Reptorian@lemmy.zip 11 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

Republicans only care about Israel funding as a image thing. They don't care about Jewish people at all. While there are reports of anti-semitism on college campuses, there are plenty of young people who has their heart out for the Muslim, Arab, and Jewish people all alike, and wishes for a permanent solution that allows them to live with each other in peace. So, really, the only reasonable solution is to vote for Biden, but also people who prefers to take a more nuanced view of the war like AOC.

[–] Zippit@lemmy.world 6 points 10 months ago (2 children)

It is stupid, but see it in context: the Muslim community has been ostracized, alienated and systematically blamed and punished as 'the baddies' since 9/11, while the majority of them just want to live their normal lives.

White people/Christians/actually everyone, never realised how much pain and suffering 9/11 also did cause the average Muslim too. Loss of jobs, income, rise of the right wing and perpetually being ridiculed and invalidated.

This coming from an ex-muslim... To be honest, when I read Biden saying that, it infuriated me. Why can't he be nuanced and defend Israel AND Gazan civilians AND condemn Hamas at the same time? Because he can't. He doesn't care how many kids are dying right now with his stupid 'cost of war' rhetoric, because he doesn't believe those lives matter. He thinks this will blow over in a year, because no one cares about brown/Muslim people.

Come what may, he just lost the election and gave republicans all those votes. Let's hope there are enough white guys replacing them. I wouldn't vote for him too. It is stupid and nobody wants that orange buffoon back, but sending a signal that enough is enough is more important sometimes.

[–] MagicShel@programming.dev 10 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Respectfully to your opinion, nothing is more important than preventing fascism from getting more of a foothold than it already has. I don't care how mad you are at Dems for not doing more, a Christofascist America would be a rabid enemy to Muslims.

I'm not even a Democrat. I'm just a dude voting for democrats to keep the country out of the hands of the current batch of Republicans.

[–] Zippit@lemmy.world 8 points 10 months ago

Yeah I agree with you 100%. Republicans are heading for a real life Gilead, I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

Let's hope I'm wrong, he still has some time to change their minds.

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I heavily disagree. Throwing away your vote or voting red simply as a “fuck you” does nothing but hurt everyone else.

Put your votes to a different dem, or even go independent.

Shooting your own foot in protest is just stupid.

[–] CluelessLemmyng@lemmy.sdf.org 6 points 10 months ago

Right. There is no Muslim representation in the GOP. You cannot say that about the Democratic party. The Democrats are a coalition ranging from Center Right to Far left. There is a candidate in there for you to support and vote for.

At the end of the day, a vote for the GOP or a no-vote is not the way to go. It's how you get Trumpers in office and they will most certainly make Muslims and Arabs suffer no matter what. It's stupid to think otherwise.

[–] Zippit@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago

It is stupid, I 100% agree with that. I also know from experience that sometimes it's the only way to get their attention.

Muslims (or any minority for that matter) were and are suffering anyway, especially after 9/11 and they usually vote with their emotions.

Democrats/Biden never should have spoken out in that way, even if HE thinks it's true. It was undignified, especially for a world leader to be so shortsighted.

Saying Israel had the right to defend itself was okay, we all agreed. When the death toll was rising beyond that, he shirked it off as the 'cost of war'. This got me angry. Vetoing UN humanitarian aid? My brain just couldn't process it. When he said he 'doubts' the numbers are right? He really got my blood boiling.

This man is systematically and wilfully undermining the Palestinians agony, death and suffering, agreeing with genocide AND expects everyone to shut up?

Yeah, I get the sense that he thinks he can say anything at this point because the other guy is worse. But he forgets that staying at home and not voting for anyone is also a choice.

So glad I live in Europe...

[–] nyar@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

The Democrats have forgotten votes are earned not guaranteed.

I'm not voting for anyone who enables genocide.

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Because republicans are so much better at that, yeah?

Use your brain

[–] nyar@lemmy.world 0 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not voting for Trump. I guess that's an automatic vote for Biden then?

Oh, it doesn't work like that? Guess the logic doesn't work either way then.

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 10 months ago

Not voting is the most irresponsible thing you can do, and makes you part of the problem

If you throw away your vote, and the worst option wins, it is just as much your fault as the ones that voted for them

Also, you forfeit your right to complain about any of it. You had your choice, you did nothing.

Vote or shut up

[–] AfricanExpansionist@lemmy.ml -2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

"blue no matter who" is how we got into this stupid mess

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 2 points 10 months ago (1 children)

No. Trump is how we got into this stupid mess.

[–] AfricanExpansionist@lemmy.ml 5 points 10 months ago

Trump is the symptom, not the condition

[–] BluJay320@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Blue no matter who is only the case because the other option is actual fascists

I agree that it sucks, but I’ll take the people who aren’t actively trying to nazify America over those who are any day.

[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 1 points 10 months ago

The Nazis killed innocent women and children which is what Biden is doing in Gaza