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Apple's called Android a "massive tracking device" in an internal presentation
(www.androidauthority.com)
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this post was submitted on 02 Nov 2023
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Android
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Apple is 100% correct. It's the entire reason Android exists.
Then again, Apple also does a fair bit of data collection. I hate that Apple has been able to market themselves as some kind of bastion of privacy. They aren't.
Apple is 100% correct. It’s the entire reason Android exists.
Then again, Apple also does a fair bit of data collection. I hate that Apple has been able to market themselves as some kind of bastion of privacy. They aren’t.
So Apple is not 100% correct. They are 50% correct because the second half of their claim is that Apple is somehow different and not tracking its users...
When the pot calls the kettle black, it is technically correct.
Actually, the reason Android exists isn't so one-dimensional.
- The company Android was initially concerned more with Microsoft dominating phones like they did computers at the time, before being bought by Google
- They created two prototype chains initially, one touch, one that was more akin to BlackBerry
- iPhone came out, they ditched the BlackBerry-esque one and focused on what became now Android
Google was mostly just doing what all tech companies were doing at the time, trying to compete in a mobile arms race for dominance. The data tracking was just a bonus. Appeasing shareholders is paramount. Look at how Apple created an Alexa speaker just because they had to as another example of this type of behavior.
Also, Apple actually has a long history of tracking user behavior that predates both Android and the iPhone.
Apple apps since some time shortly after the inception of OS X would (and likely still do) phone home to configuration.apple.com to send apple metrics on usage. Earlier variations of LittleSnitch could actually block this collection behavior.
Apple has since reconfigured the network stack to guarantee that direct encrypted connections to Apple are always possible above any VPN, or other type of network filter connection. So there's no way to prevent communication with Apple on an Apple product at all now short of keeping it off the Internet or blocking DNS to 17.* IP addresses, which would only work on a network one has control over.
I believe the reason Google acquired Android was to make sure that Apple didn't dominate the mobile device landscape, which would be a threat to their ad business. The data collection was just a nice side-effect, from their perspective.
I think you underestimate how early Google acquired Android. In 2005, Apple wasn't even in the mobile device market. Nokia were the dominant handset in those days.
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All cell phones are tracking devices. Unless you faraday cage them. But yes, both apple and Android phones give out way more information than just that. And I definitely would not say that I would trust Apple more with data that I would Google.
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Yeah yeah, wake me up when you can unlock the bootloader on apple phones.
Yup, the logic people use to call Apple phones secure would put Fisher Price toy phones at the S-Tier of security.
TL;DR: the slide is from 2013, everybody calm your pants.
Is Apple trying to convince me that the Health app, Apple maps or Siri doesn't track me?
Is Apple trying to convince me that the Health app, Apple maps or Siri doesn’t track me?
No, they are trying to convince themselves. It's an internal brainwashing presentation after all, not for external PR.
Their slide seems to list Siri, Maps, and iAd not being tied to the user's Apple ID as a pro. I didn't realize this was the case.
Apple has very explicitly stated in very clear terms that the health app does not share data with other apps or devices unless you give permission. And as someone who has given that permission (twice, once to give a meal tracker write permission and once to link to my doctors office’s application for read and write) it’s for every application. It’s not a “hey you need to let everyone have access or no one”. You can get fairly granular.
There’s always the possibility of lying but usually when a company goes that hard on saying the same thing is so many different ways it’s legit. They don’t commit like that unless they know they won’t get in trouble. Those kinds of statements could open them to false advertising claims if it got out they were taking your health data.
Here’s a link to their privacy document which reviewed a good bit of info: https://www.apple.com/privacy/docs/Health_Privacy_White_Paper_May_2023.pdf
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One damn iPhone in my home network makes most calls home out of anything in my home network. I cn see it in AdGuard Home log.
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Yeah, but Android doesn't make me constantly enter my password to do basic things. Also, Apple takes away a lot of control from their consumers.
I'll take the phone that isn't dumbed down tyvm
Ideally you shouldn't have to compromise. GrapheneOS without Google is an option.
It literally isn't - Graphene only supports Google Pixel phones.
You've apparently missed the point. Graphene exists solely to harden security and privacy by disabling the googly parts of the phone. That is clearly what was meant by "without Google"
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Buying or updating an app requires system-wide sign in
Only if one uses the official play store. Which apple does not understand, ofc.
~~does not understand~~
Does not want to understand
Oh irony, thy name is Apple.
I used to sell apple gear at a reseller. They literally used to send messages to our customers for applecare.
The difference is that Apple simply uses the data for it's own benefit and competes against everyone (including people developing for their system)
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They are not wrong
Google, the famous advertising company is using its hardware,software and infrastructure to watch everything we are doing?
I'm shocked.
Apple, ruthlessly opposing standards any time it can make them a buck no matter how many people have to suffer the consequences.
I'm shocked.
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"only when it provides a better customer service" Hahaha. That's so vague that it is completely meaningless.
Clearly this was before Apple became one of the largest advertising companies.
Well, it's not like Apple doesn't also collect pretty hair-raising information on you. Go digging through some of the sqlite databases on your machine and you'll find eg. a social graph that even supports labels for things like political affiliations (I think this db was the one used by their ominously named "intelligence platform" service). Another db (which I think was for the knowledged daemon) has an incredibly detailed log of everything you do on your computer and phone, including eg. web URLs and millisecond granularity events on when you interact with your devices. Whether that social graph or all that other stuff ever leaves your devices is unknown (although eg. the knowledged stuff definitely does since I can see events for my phone on my laptop), but I wouldn't count on it not being sent to Apple – regardless of what they claim.
And yeah, sure, this is all to make "customer experience" better, but do you seriously believe that's all they will be used for?
Edit: and just as a side note, I'm not basing these claims on stuff I read online, but on actually having looked at the contents of those databases myself
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:spidermanpointing1: :spidermanpointing2:
was this old (the google logo is the old one so i'm not sure) or was apple just uninformed?
you can have all sorts of multiple accounts in the control panel, mail and calendar all have on device log ons, you can update apps outside of the app store or use the google play store with your google account the same way you do with your apple account.
Five words into the article says
Apple’s internal presentation from 2013
Literally at the top under TL;DR
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Closed source is always privacy invasive by default.
Lol at DoJ just releasing it, thanks I suppose.
Lol at Apple trying to wiggle its way into everything trying to fool people that they are privacy champs and everyone else using Android is a chump. I have no doubt in my mind that Apple has terabytes of data on every user. And Google maps can be used without signing in, making their argument a moot point
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The difference is that Google is collecting everything, while Apple can collect everything.
Also, Android is not a "device".
Android and iOS are a massive tracking operating systems. Stick to deGoogled Android and Linux on mobile.
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Don't forget our vehicles are also tracking us. Soon our Ai trainers will have enough data to guide us in their path and we'll love what they tell us we should do.
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Says them.
They’re not wrong.
Apple has a better stance on data privacy than google because their profit model is being a premium consumer device whereas googles profit model is being a provider of ads.
Apple’s incentives are closer to the consumer since they want to make the consumer happy while googles incentives are aligned with the trackers because that improves ad revenue.
This changes the DNA of the OS.
Plus the integration of googles data insecure services with android mean that as a matter of actual reality then discussing the security of android really means discussing the data security of those integrated services. It’s unavoidable.
Don’t trust either of course but I simply do have more confidence my apple data isn’t being exploited as much as my google data simply because Apple doesn’t stand as much to gain and stands more to lose from being embarrassed on the issue.
And pointing to custom android roms that replace google services with FOSS alternatives is a technically correct but still wrong answer to this because it doesn’t reflect the reality of the overwhelming majority of android users.
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