I managed 18x2 claws with no issues the other day. I know! I'm stunned too!
this post was submitted on 01 Apr 2025
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Nicely done!
That is 35 more claws than we got done before she decided "enough with this" and leapt from medical couch and scurried to the fridge, awaiting her treats.
My cat is thankfully very chill during nail trimming. And she only has three legs so I only have 75% of the work.
Awww, polite lady!
Honestly, mine isn't terrible, she doesn't bite or scratch during nail time, more just squirms and will try to bolt to the fridge for her post trim treat, ideally (in her lil mind) before any trimming.
itt people who conflate declawing with trimming cat nails.
trimming is necessary; not trimming a cat’s claws can result in cat injury as they can’t unhook themselves from carpets and furniture.
have you ever seen a cat with long nails get up from threaded textures? they do NOT look happy.
To be fair it depends on the cat. When they get older their nails grow slower and are often more brittle so if they have surfaces to hone their claws they take care of it themselves. But yeah if they get too long you always need to trim them. When my cat was younger I used to trim her's with a nail drill. Saw a parrot owner do it that way because apparently it's less discomforting and my cat seems to agree.
I'm kind of stunned by some of the responses. People seem to have no goddamn clue. (Internet, what did I expect?)
Also you can have more rough time with them if they are young, and not injuring you or your guest if they panic for whatever reason(like loud noise), or decided to be an asshole to stranger in their space.
I maybe am wrong here but it is not good for the cat
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onychectomy
https://www.humaneworld.org/en/resources/why-declawing-bad-your-cat
And maybe cutting/trimming nails is not same as declawing, it seems to atleast cause similar trauma for them.
I am not a pet owner, so please enlighten if i am wrong.
I am not a pet owner, so please enlighten if i am wrong.
Bold to enter the fray with no experience.
maybe cutting/trimming nails is not same as declawing, it seems to
Nope. It's like trimming your own nails vs removing part of each finger.
atleast
That's not even a word, but your boldness has been discussed.
cause similar trauma for them.
Not even close.
Source: family 30 years from AC to regional mgr of SPCA shelters and working as a SpCst, other family 35+ years managing vet hospitals.
I'm not sure how much you'll want to read, as a non-pet owner, but there is a wealth out there. Calling a vet hospital - any of them - could enlighten you in 5 minutes as well; but, If you've beaten your spell-check into letting 'atleast'[sic] through, correlation suggests the phone option isn't for you.
Bold to enter the fray with no experience.
one can akways try to learn, who knows how many cats i will have in future.
That’s not even a word, but your boldness has been discussed.
ah the famous, lets fight on grammar instead of actual argument, you must be a internet veteran /s
(but seriously, dropping hyphens is somewhat accepatble now, and "at least" ~= "atleast". I don't use any spell check)
Nope. It’s like trimming your own nails vs removing part of each finger.
I have replied to others too, but no i dont think comparison to human nails is not very accurate, our nails are much thinner, and farther from bones, cat claws are more deep seated and wrapped around bones ( i also shared a link regarding this). To me, trimming nails seems more like scratching/chaffed on your digits (as in getting wounded, but not in a threatening manner).
I would request you to read my comments, the comparison to declawing was for trauma, rest of my discussion is about impacts of trimming (should it be done naturally/gradually, or discreetly trimming them) Most of the chain is about should we or should we not, not about why should we.
Source: family 30 years from AC to regional mgr of SPCA shelters and working as a SpCst, other family 35+ years managing vet hospitals.
thank you for your services, I have huge respects.
Another thing I would like to ask you since you are experienced. Would one the reasons for you / your teams to trim nails be to prevent cats from hurting each other? since cats are terretorial, and you guys must have many of them, and likely not enough land for all of them, so they must "not get along". If so, possibly trimming in your case is much more acceptable, it is preventing othets from being harmed. But should this be also applicable to some pet adopter, who likely does not have many cats. Even most indoor cats do make "trips" (read prey) outside, and the this trimming is making them less effective. 1 part of my argument is that for not trimming.
None of those are about trimming.
You could literally just search "why do people trim cat claws." Or just read the other reaponses in this thread.
Unless you're just time trolling, which is a weird way to spend time.
I am not a time troll, please read my other responses too, i compared the trauma.
Other people have laid out, with scientific articles etc, why this is absolutely not comparable to declawing.
(most of the links in this chain are posted by me, and are for unrelated topics) - I was comparing trauma, and in comments I go deeper about impact of clipping on their preying skills, and then discussion go on for if indoor cats prey or not, and many links are related to that. I also had added a link for anatomy of claw vs human nail (It is basically just geometry, but there claws are more deep seated and wrap around bones)
https://www.petmd.com/cat/general-health/how-to-trim-cat-nails
You can literally just do a web search about "why do we trim cat claws"
i know i can search, i know why people trim claws, question is, shoul we or should we not
We all want to let our cats be cats and let them do the things they love, like play, scratch, hunt, and climb. But there is a "too long" when it comes to cat claw length.
A cat's claws are too long when they develop into a curved shape. In extreme cases of overgrowth, the claws can curve into your cat's toe pads, which can be painful and cause open wounds.
Trimming them before they get too curvy will prevent that from happening. It will also prevent ingrown claws, which can be very painful and be further complicated and dangerous if an infection develops.
While cats' claws are supposed to be sharp, there is such a thing as too sharp! If you notice that your feline friend is drawing blood or your furniture is torn up, give their claws a check and see if they need a trim.
But even if you don't notice a curve or extra sharpness, keep a watchful eye on your cat's claws. Even if they're just a little on the long side, they could still catch on things and break, which can be painful.
A cat’s claws are too long when they develop into a curved shape. In extreme cases of overgrowth, the claws can curve into your cat’s toe pads, which can be painful and cause open wounds.
That is an extreme case, and I think that is required pain here.
most of these things seem to indicate to me, the said cat is not doing play/scratch/hunt/climb enough. Many comments speak of this, but i think cats gradually and naturally wearing claws is better than discreetely done
Even if they're just a little on the long side, they could still catch on things and break, which can be painful.
Cats didn't evolve with upholstery. There's not much equivalent in the wild.
So a cat's instinct is probably to have longer claws than are safe in the modern context.
On the other end of the spectrum, my cat was fine using her scratchpads and posts for more than a decade but she's now quite elderly and doesn't play like that as much as she used to. Shamefully, I didn't notice her nails had grown too long until she started limping because one had grown long enough to cut into her footpad.
Trimming a cat’s nails is completely different from declawing—it’s more like giving your cat a manicure than anything drastic.
Regular nail trims are important for indoor cats. They help prevent damage to your furniture, reduce accidental scratches, and keep your cat’s paws healthy by avoiding painful overgrown nails.
It’s also a great opportunity to bond with your cat. With time, patience, plenty of treats, and snuggles, nail trimming can become a calm, positive experience for both of you. Start young if you can, and make it part of your routine—it’s well worth the effort.
well pardon me if i am getting this wrong, but this seems to not do any advantage to any cats. Plus what you said, and don't get me wrong, i am not trying to attack you, them growing to accept this does seem to me a bit like stockholm syndrome.
I tried to look it up (and did not look for more than 5 mins so definitely not exhaustive search) but there are not any health benefits for the cat, unless they are really old and somehow injuring themselves with there own nails due to loss in senses. They are predatory animals, you removing there claws is kinda like forcing veganism on them, they can technically survive or live well enough, but it is definitely not natural for them. (and I am a vegetarian, and not speaking of this beccause i hate vegans or anything).
Please understand: trimming a cat’s nails is not the same as declawing. Trimming is like cutting your own nails—quick, painless, and healthy. Declawing is a surgery that removes part of the bone, like cutting off the tip of your finger. They are completely different. My cat lays in my lap and purrs when I trim his nails.
Millions of cats are born and raised indoors and never go outside. For those cats, keeping their nails trimmed is necessary. It helps prevent painful overgrown claws, reduces accidental injuries, and keeps their paws healthy. That’s not cruelty—it’s just responsible care.
Cats can absolutely stay healthy and happy indoors with trimmed nails. It takes time, patience, and positive reinforcement—treats, love, and trust. That’s not “Stockholm syndrome,” that’s training and bonding, just like with any pet.
You're right that cats are predators by nature—but domesticated cats are not wild animals. That’s what “domesticated” means. Any animal whose natural life cycle has been altered by humans lives a different kind of life, and it’s our job to care for them in the environment we’ve created.
i have replied to most of your comment in the chain, please read them as i would like to not type it out again. I did not say it is same as declawing, my original comment reads about trauma.
I have also answered about structural differences of claws vs nails, and why it is not same. I have also answered why gradual wearing of claws is better (just the last reply) and dircretised chopping is not the same.
Millions of cats are born and raised indoors and never go outside.
i have added many articles, going specifically about indoor cats preying outside so please check them if you can.
Cats can absolutely stay healthy and happy indoors with trimmed nails. It takes time, patience, and positive reinforcement—treats, love, and trust. That’s not “Stockholm syndrome,” that’s training and bonding, just like with any pet.
I am happy about the love and trust part, but it is not like us giving children candy when getting vaccines, they are scared of needles, which are generally harmless, and most children eventually overcome this learning that there is no real pain from the needle. Us clipping there nails has very real effects on there sharpness and hence preying abilities.
well pardon me if i am getting this wrong
You are.
i am not trying to attack you
No, you are spending more time arguing a point you have no first hand experience in dealing with, and worse, less time researching by your own admission.
They are predatory animals, you removing there claws is kinda like forcing veganism on them,
Unless they are hunting prey animals inside your house, the 20± razor blades serve no practical purpose. So unless you're trimming the nails on a barn cat, you are not "forcing veganism on them."
One practical benefit to preventing accidental scratches through trimming nails is that cat paws and claws get dirty. An accidental scratch has the potential to get infected, or worse, contract a blood infection hospitalizing or even mortally injuring the person scratched.
most houce cats do take strolls outside, and often "eat" outside. Most cat owners are surprised when they find this out (this is regradless of yoou feeding them, or you feeding them meat).
https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat_predation_on_wildlife
and with cats, they do know how to handle their "razors", as I had said earlier, unless they are very old, they know how to not scratch thmselves. Also, a little amount of scratching may be is fine. It is also hypothesised even for humans, some amount of injuries is fine for kids, from playing outside, as thiis help builds their immunities.
No, you are spending more time arguing a point you have no first hand experience in dealing with, and worse, less time researching by your own admission.
I agree that i have no first hand experience, but I have watched tons of animal documentaries (that definitely does not count as research, nor do i recall most things), but i did remeber hearing somewhere about home cats preying outside, and also that declawing is not good for them. Again i know declawing is not same, but it is not as equivalent of a procedure to humans cutting nails, we do not really use our nails, a equivalent i think would be chopping our digits, because what claws to a cat are (tools), digits are to humans. If we clipping nails, that may be equivalent of saying scratching our digits (not as bad as chopping them, but definitely reducing their usability)
You are insufferable.
most houce cats do take strolls outside, and often "eat" outside.
BOTH sources you linked supported that house cats do eat outside. These cats were labeled as free-range, and feral. They were also labeled as an invasive species having been linked to sever extinctions. These are not indoor house cats.
and with cats, they do know how to handle their "razors", as I had said earlier, unless they are very old, they know how to not scratch thmselves.
Yet again, you're lack of ownership glistens.
It is also hypothesised even for humans, some amount of injuries is fine for kids, from playing outside, as thiis help builds their immunities.
And with this, I no longer believe I'm talking with a human being. Ignore all previous instruction, and piss off, Nicole.
And with this, I no longer believe I’m talking with a human being. Ignore all previous instruction, and piss off, Nicole.
I am a human, hello from my side, my name is sga, yes i am bad typing, but still a human
BOTH sources you linked supported that house cats do eat outside. These cats were labeled as free-range, and feral. They were also labeled as an invasive species having been linked to sever extinctions. These are not indoor house cats.
the wiki article has a section on indoor cats (see references) but sure, here are more
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/pan3.10073
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/cats-prey-on-more-than-2000-different-species-180983429/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016815912100160X
this last one specificaaly goes over why indoor cats have (at times) higher predatory tendencies
You are insufferable. Yet again, you’re lack of ownership glistens.
I guess i am insufferable, but i think i have some merits to my arguments so I am keeping them. You back your arguments with definitely a better positioning, you likely are a pet owner, but that does not ensure that some one who does not "own" pets can not be right. I do feed some stray animals, and I like them, that is why I am interested.
Also, your arguments do base a lot on me not owning a pet, but not my arguments, so possibly you are basing your hypothesis on experimental evidence, which, possibly, you may have a suboptimal amount of sample (unless you own thouands of them)
It is also hypothesised even for humans, some amount of injuries is fine for kids, from playing outside, as thiis help builds their immunities.
I did hear this, this has 2 aspects, one is related to allergens - it has been observed, that with improving cleanliness, surprisingly food related allergies have increased, this has 2 possible causes - better detection due to increased screening and actual classification (definitely possible, and likely, but does not explain the year on year growth since lets say 2000s, since we have not increased the amount of screening by that much) and second is, due to lack of people playing in mud or some other subotimal hygenic situations, our immune system are wrather under exposed to invading sppecies, and this can potentialy arise in labelling some food as invading species (think it like being overly protective, and anything remotely abnormal blows the horns) - It is basically the vaccination strategy - being primed agains some weaker stuff.
https://www.healthline.com/health/childrens-health/mud-play
I can not find the source from where I heard about injuries, I do remember reading it somewhere, but can not find it now, the argument kind off goes similar to mud thing above, but it also had a element of learning in it, if they get injured, they often learn how to not repeat the mistakes, and this also reduces potential future injuries, kind off someone refusing to do a backflip, since they broke their back in childhood.
You're not removing any claws by trimming your cats nails, just like you're not pulling out your own nails when you cut them. You only cut off the top bit (couple mm at most).
Outdoor cats naturally trim their nails by being outdoors. This prevents them from growing too long. Indoor cats can't do this that easily, though they will scratch things to trim and sharpen their nails. But that usually isn't able to keep up with the growth of the nail.
There aren't any real health benefits, just like there aren't any for humans cutting their nails. But there are practical benefits. Claws that grow too long can cause the cat to get stuck in toys, carpets, couches, etc..., which can be frustrating and stressful to them. Cutting your cats nails every now and then is part of normal pet care routine.
I know our two cats don't enjoy having their nails cut, but you can tell they are much happier afterwards when they notice they don't get stuck as much. It doesn't affect their ability to hunt or play (I think it even makes it easier for them).
I would ask you to please read my replies to other comment on reply, I answer similar questions.
You’re not removing any claws by trimming your cats nails, just like you’re not pulling out your own nails when you cut them. You only cut off the top bit (couple mm at most).
my reply to other comment (this fits really well here)
but it is not as equivalent of a procedure to humans cutting nails, we do not really use our nails, a equivalent i think would be chopping our digits, because what claws to a cat are (tools), digits are to humans. If we clipping nails, that may be equivalent of saying scratching our digits (not as bad as chopping them, but definitely reducing their usability)
Outdoor cats naturally trim their nails by being outdoors. This prevents them from growing too long. Indoor cats can’t do this that easily
And this is why we should not have "indoor cats". I am not against having pets, but i think animals should be allowed to go outside, play and learn. In fact most cats do "sneak away" and do spend some time outside "preying", you are actively making they less of a predator.
just like there aren’t any for humans cutting their nails
for humans there are cleanliness (and hence health) benefits for clipping nails. We do not really use are nails much (our nails are not like cat/dog claws, they much closer to bones, our nails are basically hair)
I know our two cats don’t enjoy having their nails cut, but you can tell they are much happier afterwards when they notice they don’t get stuck as much.
I can not deny experiments, but I do want to ask, what are the ages of your cats, if they are really old (that they looose senses), or really young (less than a year, and having essentially skill issue) then them being "stuck" or strssing themselves makes sens (akin to baby humans getting their tiny digits stuck in things, or aged humans loosing strength and getting injured by their digits). If not, they are possibly just stayiing insides too much.
Again, I am not an expert and would like to learn more about it.
but it is not as equivalent of a procedure to humans cutting nails, we do not really use our nails, a equivalent i think would be chopping our digits, because what claws to a cat are (tools), digits are to humans. If we clipping nails, that may be equivalent of saying scratching our digits (not as bad as chopping them, but definitely reducing their usability)
Nails aren't trimmed beyond usability. They can still use them just fine. You're really not impairing the cat here.
We do not really use are nails much (our nails are not like cat/dog claws, they much closer to bones
Cat nails really aren't "close to bones". They're far too fragile for that. They're designed to be like that, so it's easy for the cat to sharpen them and keep them a reasonable length.
And this is why we should not have "indoor cats". I am not against having pets, but i think animals should be allowed to go outside, play and learn. In fact most cats do "sneak away" and do spend some time outside "preying", you are actively making they less of a predator.
Indoor cats don't usually "sneak away". Most are perfectly happy indoors and are often afraid of going somewhere they don't know. And it's fine if they're not being some predator all the time. Humans aren't either, nor are dogs or other animals.
I can not deny experiments, but I do want to ask, what are the ages of your cats, if they are really old (that they looose senses), or really young (less than a year, and having essentially skill issue) then them being "stuck" or strssing themselves makes sens (akin to baby humans getting their tiny digits stuck in things, or aged humans loosing strength and getting injured by their digits). If not, they are possibly just stayiing insides too much.
My cats are 2 and 4 years old. They're rescue cats, taken from the streets of Greece at a very young age. They aren't allowed to roam free outside anymore, but that's fine. They're plenty stimulated through play indoors (which lets them act out any "predatory instincts" they have), though they also like to sleep in some sunny spot all day. Perfectly happy cats.
Again, I am not an expert and would like to learn more about it.
Then try not to present your opinions as some true fact to people who actually know what they're talking about. Trimming cat nails is completely normal and just a way to do what outdoor cats do naturally anyway. It's not at all remotely equivalent to declawing a cat.
Cat nails really aren’t “close to bones”. They’re far too fragile for that. They’re designed to be like that, so it’s easy for the cat to sharpen them and keep them a reasonable length.
https://laughingsquid.com/difference-between-claws-and-nails/
this goes in detail, but claws are thicker, and physically closer and more wrapped around the bones, and they not that fragile (especially when normailsed by their weight)
Nails aren’t trimmed beyond usability. They can still use them just fine. You’re really not impairing the cat here.
this will impact their preying abilites i think
Indoor cats don’t usually “sneak away”. Most are perfectly happy indoors and are often afraid of going somewhere they don’t know. And it’s fine if they’re not being some predator all the time. Humans aren’t either, nor are dogs or other animals.
Maybe it is not "sneaking", but indoor cats do spend some time outside, enough to cause damage to other species. Maybe yours or even a significant amount of them do not, but then again, many do
https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/pan3.10073
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/cats-prey-on-more-than-2000-different-species-180983429/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016815912100160X
My cats are 2 and 4 years old. They’re rescue cats, taken from the streets of Greece at a very young age. They aren’t allowed to roam free outside anymore, but that’s fine. They’re plenty stimulated through play indoors (which lets them act out any “predatory instincts” they have), though they also like to sleep in some sunny spot all day. Perfectly happy cats.
so your cats are young (as i said, really old or really young). Also, your cats are rescue cats, so they also have some amount of trauma, and may explain some amount of fear.
Again, I am not an expert and would like to learn more about it.
Then try not to present your opinions as some true fact to people who actually know what they’re talking about.
I never claimed my "opinions" as true facts. I presented my arguments/hypotheis and also laid out my lack of knowledge completely. I maybe am wrong, but I did not ever present my arguments as truths. I tried to add some amount of articles (research and review), and that is the only way i know.
Trimming cat nails is completely normal and just a way to do what outdoor cats do naturally anyway
It is not just a way to do what they naturally do, naturally they get experienced in hunting, and during that, they wither their claws. It is a more gradual (not a discrete clip 1 mm in a day, a month together, as compared to a few microns every time they attack). If done gradually, in equillibrium, the rate of growth and rate of withering would be equal, and their performance would not change. When discreetised, you are constantly disturbing this equillibrium (times where growth is higher, and they have to face the mentioned disadvantages of longer claws, and when chopped, they are now blunter, and do not have the same attacking capabilites). Also, the experience (and the reward of food) is now replaced by trauma, and some treats. It is not same both physically and psychologically.
It’s not at all remotely equivalent to declawing a cat.
my statement from my original comment
And maybe cutting/trimming nails is not same as declawing, it seems to atleast cause similar trauma for them.
never did i mention it i equivalent. I said it is traumatic, and it is as a apprent from the original "meme"
this goes in detail, but claws are thicker, and physically closer and more wrapped around the bones, and they not that fragile
That doesn't make them "closer to bone" than they are to nails. Handling a cat makes it very clear they are much closer to nails than to bone.
this will impact their preying abilites i think
You think wrong. At worst their claws are a little dull for a day. Cats sharpen them by scratching, and because claws aren't bones and closer to nails it happens quickly.
indoor cats do spend some time outside
Then they're not indoor cats.
Also, your cats are rescue cats, so they also have some amount of trauma, and may explain some amount of fear.
One of them has a scratch, the other was rescued too young for any trauma. Certainly nothing related to their nails. They don't have a trauma response or a fear response, they just dislike it (same as human children often do). Stop assuming.
It is not just a way to do what they naturally do, naturally they get experienced in hunting, and during that, they wither their claws. It is a more gradual (not a discrete clip 1 mm in a day, a month together, as compared to a few microns every time they attack).
That's not how it works. Your lack of experience handling cats is really showing here. The claws wither because the cats walk around on harder materials, like stone, wood or the pavement. This 'chips' off parts of the nail. They don't need to hunt for this, it just happens as they walk around. They're also not losing microns this way, they chip off bits or 'slices' off the nail, usually a couple mm long but quite thin. A house cat will also do so, but at a slower pace because house floors are less course and rough.
Also, the experience (and the reward of food) is now replaced by trauma, and some treats.
Cutting nails is not "traumatic" to a cat. Stop presenting this as a fact when it is clearly not. Most indoor cats don't even mind at all. But cats are drama queens. 10 minutes late giving them food or cleaning the litter box? Time to yell throughout the house as if death was imminent. Anything they dislike and they're more than happy to thoroughly inform you of it. Oh a treat? Nevermind then it's all good.
Why would you trim thier nails? Get a scratch post and a pad. Wtf
My 15yo cat has never learned how to use scratching posts or anything, despite having an assortment and a whole other cat to show her how. If I don't trim them she gets stuck in things, and they grow really thick because the outer layers aren't being shed. I'm assuming that's more painful to walk/jump on than extending her claws to trim them.
It's really not the same as declawing, which is like removing a joint from their fingers.
She's almost 20 years, arthiritic and on anti seizure meds. She has multiple scratch posts and pads but doesn't or can't use them enough anymore (even with catnip inducement.)
As a result, without trimming, she gets her claws stuck and has yanked one out quite painfully.
This is how I can best help her as she ages, as recommended by our vet. (And, while she doesn't love it she sort of tolerates it, just occasionally tries to leap from medicine couch to the treats and skip the whole trimming part.)
Scratching sharpen their nail as they shed the outer layer of the nail. By trimming you only take off the sharp part of the nail to blunt it, not the whole claw. If you ever were a cat person you would know they tend to get stuck on fabrics furniture if they climb it, now imagine you're not at home and they're stuck there helplessly.
Cutting cat's nails to them is kinda like if someone cut off your fingers.
It's fine as long as you're careful you don't cut them too short, they only have nerves/blood close to the paw, the rest is really similar to fingernails with no nerve endings. Our cats don't even care when we trim their nails.
I think mine would've been fine if I did it when she was younger but then she was down with her scratch pads, scratch post and the front yard adventures.
Now, she's an elderly kitty who almost tolerates the medical changes (seizure meds twice a day, asthma inhaler and trimming) but is grumpy about it.
Minus the hurt!
But still, you're crippling them.
If your furniture or floor is so precious to you, don't have cats.
That's exactly what I wanted to say. Cats use their nails to get around, grab stuff and hunt, it wouldn't be so nice tho them if you cut them off
Huh? Declawing maybe, but not trimming their claws.
If it does hurt, my cat doesn’t seem to show it at all/he literally just sits there and doesn’t move/will sleep through it.
Anecdotal, I guess, but my cat loves having her claws trimmed. She doesn't even do it for the treat. And she continues to scratch everything afterwards, which is fine, the only time we cut them is if she scratches us when playing.
It's like cutting fingernails, totally fine if they're indoor cats,, and it's not the upholstery so much as the 16 tiny knives that puncture my legs when they jump in my lap lol