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this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2025
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Fuck AI
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Supreme Court: that's not art that's pornography. I cant exactly define pornography, but "you know it when you see it."
:P
BEEEG DRAGOM TTS
If all it takes to be a "real artist" is drawing proficiently, then every ai artist who has also learned to draw is a real artist and every performance or installation artist who can't draw is not an artist.
I don't like AI slop, but this argument against it just doesn't make sense.
It isn't saying that drawing is the only art form, just that having the ability to create art from scratch is what makes someone an artist. Drawing was an example, performance art, music, and other forms of art are also criteria for being an artist.
Hell, you don't even have to be proficient if you are able to create art that conveys something.
every ai artist who has also learned to draw is a real artist
Yes, they are an artist if they are able to create art although the label only matters in reference to the things they create. It doesn't mean everything they do is art.
Using AI prompts is like using a web search to find art someone else created, it isn't creating art. Does writing down an idea for a book make someone an author? No, it does not.
~~You realize you just said photographers aren't artists, right?~~
Edit: Someone already pointed this out. Ignore this comment. I don't delete it because Lemmy is weird about deleting comments.
The other person was also wrong.
According to your own delusions?
having the ability to create art from scratch is what makes someone an artist
This implies photographers aren't artists though. They rely on a specific tool - the camera - and utilize it to create art. This ranges from "just" taking pictures to setting up elaborate scenes.
Another example - for which I have forgotten the name - is art utilizing computers. Not in the sense of anything digital but rather electronic calculating machines built to beep, boop and blink. I've been to an exhibition which featured this type of art by one artist. Some were interactive, some weren't, some were (partially) broken after decades of age and some were still functioning. Most were built during the 60s to 90s by the way. I believe the artist never did created any other art, at least publicly. He was an artist nonetheless.
I'd say AI art is art. Any definition of artistry which attempts to exclude AI art must also exclude other unconventional art forms.
The question shouldn't be what art is or isn't anyways. Such questions often lead to gatekeeping or nazis. Rather, it should be about the meaning of art. And most of AI art has the sole meaning of looking decent. AI art cannot ever replace more meaningful art as it alone lacks much meaning. It may at most supplement it, with some artists perhaps using AI deliberately as part of a work.
This implies photographers aren’t artists though.
I mean if you think it is necessary for the person who works with sticks to grow the plant from a seed first to count as 'from scratch' that would make sense.
It isn't about which tools are used, but the process. A photographer, without a camera, can still block off a shot and consider lighting and what exposure they would use if they had the tools handy. It is extremely likely they could do a bare bones sketch of what they would take a picture of. They are considering details and how it would impact the way the picture turns out and the feelings that might be invoked in whoever looked at the photo down the road.
A tech bro using AI is just throwing words into a blender and seeing if something comes out. We aren't talking about possible AI refinement tools, we are talking about AI tech bros who throw shit out with shitty and inconsistent lighting, terrible textures, and other bland shit that is rehashed crap vomited forth from the AI system that is no more art than doing a web search, saving one of the results, and saying "I made this".
A photographer without a camera cannot produce art though. They can imagine it, explain it and even make a rough sketch - but the end result isn't art. It's a concept for art that is not yet made reality.
Similarly, there are differing levels of effort in order to create AI art. For instance, someone using an LLM to create an AI picture has approximately as much artistic merit as someone using their phone to take a selfie. It requires roughly the same amount of effort as well.
But for other AI art, it can take a lot of time to get everything right. I've dabbled with Stable Diffusion two years ago and there is a lot of finetuning and parameters you had to set to get anything worthwhile. My attempts roughly looked like taking a photo with random brightness, contrast and exposure settings: like utter trash. With some time and practice one could likely get adept at manipulating whatever model one is using and generate plenty of images with purpose.
Most AI generated images have little to no artistic merit, just like most pictures taken with a smartphone camera. But you cannot conclude that any and all art with either of those tools is therefore impossible.
Similarly, there are differing levels of effort in order to create AI art. For instance, someone using an LLM to create an AI picture has approximately as much artistic merit as someone using their phone to take a selfie. It requires roughly the same amount of effort as well.
That is correct.
Photographs that simply document something existing are not art. The photos I take of something that catches my eye are not art if I don't bother with a minimum of framing or any kind of composition. Those are just snapshots of something existing, which is also the case with most selfies.
But you cannot conclude that any and all art with either of those tools is therefore impossible.
I sure can!
A camera can be used to make art and just document things. A paintbrush can be used to make art or just paint a wall a single color without any larger context that would make it art. Tools used to make art are also able to be used to make stuff that isn't art. Even art that might look random, like Jackson Pollock's splatter paintings, were intentional with composition and purpose.
A LLM is a randomizing copy blender. It has a vague idea of what the person is going for, but it is just mashing together stuff that was pumped into it without intent or purpose. If it gets lucky and is what the person wants, cool. It still isn't art and can't be due to just being a randomized mismash of things other people created like fancy copy machine.
Photographs that simply document something existing are not art.
Just picked up this photograph from Goodwill
This is a photograph that simply documents the raccoons and blue Jay just existing.
I could have pointed a camera and with "AI" help or auto focus taken this photo.
AI can't go out in the woods and find this shot. A good wildlife photographer can and does.
Now, if I told you that this picture was taken with a remote camera? That some person just had a camera pointed at a stump for weeks and got lucky.
Does that make it less "art"?
It's the work and effort that gives the art the feeling.
You looking at that photo makes you feel a certain way. It has beauty. It is art.
Now, if you think the photographer camped out for days hunting the perfect picture of these raccoons or if this is actually just an AI generated photo of Raccoons. Is going to change your feelings and if you appreciate it as "true" art.
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having the ability to create art from scratch is what makes someone an artist.
But in that case all AI artists are artists because all humans can create art from scratch. Everyone draws in the dirt.
I'm happy considering all humans artists - I do think that - but again that means that burning a stick and drawing on a rock is just not a valid metric for being an artist.
I'm getting flashbacks to when people, during the man vs. bear debacle, started arguing about bear muscle strength.
You are completely missing the point and unfortunately I cannot explain it more clearly.
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