this post was submitted on 29 May 2025
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[–] amniote@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Debian user here. All people have a doorkey. Some people have an alarm system as well. Infosec is about ' what do you have and what do you know '. So in principle TPM is a defencible argument. You should absolutely bail from MS products for different reasons. Like privacy. Your PC isn't yours anymore. Your NPU will reduce THEIR costs. Etc.

Don't enter Linux thinking its a drop in replacement. Go slow and do 'ships in the night'. Move data over to the new ship. Start embracing OSS on windows, it'll be familiar when you finally bail. G luck.

[–] interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago

TPM is the wedge to put a cryptoprocessor in your computer so program can finally operate under the tyrannical scrutiny of users and the pirates using ghidra !

[–] gnuplusmatt@reddthat.com 25 points 3 days ago (1 children)

what a bizare take to suggest hoping for ReactOS to mature before using Linux as daily driver. A lot of the current reactOS app compatibility depends on WINE implementation anyway.

[–] Patch@feddit.uk 11 points 2 days ago (1 children)

ReactOS is a very fun project, but anyone expecting it to be a real useable OS is absolutely mad. It's been going for almost 30 years, and they're almost at the point of binary compatibility with Windows Server 2003...

[–] gnuplusmatt@reddthat.com 3 points 2 days ago

Last I checked it didnt play very nicely in real hardware, and required running it in a VM

[–] _synack@sh.itjust.works 24 points 3 days ago

I had a Windows 10 laptop that has a CPU not supported by Windows 11. It’s not e-waste, though. It just runs Ubuntu now.

[–] muusemuuse@lemm.ee 22 points 3 days ago (3 children)

Fucking Christ, you have choices people. If windows won’t meet your needs anymore, USE SOMETHING ELSE! Why do these people pretend there are no alternatives to windows?!

[–] TeddE@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago

There are no alternatives to Windows. You will join us. Embrace ☀️. Extend 🌈.Ȩ̷͙͙̺̰̦͊̏͜x̷̱̹̃t̶̡͉̍̋̌̿͗̈́͘í̴̡̼̱̫͚̺͙̉ň̶̛̮͠ģ̴̛̹̮͎̏̓u̷̢̢̜͊̆̈̉͐̑i̸̛̪͔̤̰͚̾͌̈̍͜ͅs̶̳̜͎͓͚̣̼̖͌̇̈́͊̌͋h̷͉̹̄͐̋̐͛🌚.

[–] conartistpanda@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

Think about all the people with computers that don't know about Linux.

[–] phoenixz@lemmy.ca 39 points 3 days ago (14 children)

Switch to Linux, today. It's always been the better option, but for the last decade it's been the easier option as well. Installing Linux is a walk in the park whereas windows is a Hilarious clown show from hell with no end.

That reminds me that now in the office we're dealing with windows machines where the network card just stops working, drivers are suddenly gone. Don't ask, it's windows, it's Microsoft abd this is just considered normal. If a Linux machine has a bug it's "oh my god Linux sucks sooo hard, it's impossible to get it to work!" but this Microsoft bullshit just gets handwaved away with "well computers are complicated, let's just reinstall this"

Yes, there is still a limited set of specialty hardware that may not have drivers available for Linux, but the vast majority of people can easily run Linux and have a much MUCH better experience than windows, and that is ignoring the spyware, the adware, the ads, the plain security nightmare of having a windows machine....

Switch to Linux, it's easy, it's beautiful, it's fun. Come to Linux, come to the dark side, we have cookies

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 14 points 3 days ago (7 children)

Installing Linux is a walk in the park whereas windows is a Hilarious clown show from hell with no end.

As a server maybe. Switching everything on my desktop to Linux has been a constant fight against all kinds of problems and there's several things I haven't been able to get working at all. Microsoft's constant enshittification is closing the gap and it's currently a tossup between which one I'm going to land on but that's not Linux improving so much as Windows getting worse.

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[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago (8 children)

That reminds me that now in the office we’re dealing with windows machines where the network card just stops working, drivers are suddenly gone. Don’t ask, it’s windows, it’s Microsoft abd this is just considered normal. If a Linux machine has a bug it’s “oh my god Linux sucks sooo hard, it’s impossible to get it to work!” but this Microsoft bullshit just gets handwaved away with “well computers are complicated, let’s just reinstall this”

Ah, yes, that. I switched in 2011 and the first impressions were about how flawless everything is compared to Windows.

the plain security nightmare of having a windows machine…

Eh, about that - Linux really isn't immune to that. Just right now Windows is still by far the more profitable target.

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[–] lengau@midwest.social 5 points 2 days ago

I'm grateful to Microsoft for Windows 11 providing me a bunch of free machines to stick in my basement and put Linux on.

[–] const_void@lemmy.ml 18 points 3 days ago

Where’s Microsoft’s Chief Sustainability Officer on this one? Too busy looking the other way on Copilot’s massive energy usage?

[–] umbrella@lemmy.ml 27 points 3 days ago (18 children)

consider linux instead of throwing functional shit away

[–] ThePrivacyPolicy@lemmy.ca 12 points 3 days ago (1 children)

I've converted a ton of my older family to Linux, it does everything they need as far as web browsing and some basic office applications, and it offers a polished enough UI these days that most barely tell it apart from windows, some even prefer the UI more. Even 2/3 of our home systems have gone full Linux now too (no more dual booting) and handle all my own gaming, audio and programming needs. I really hope this message keeps getting out there and we can cut back on ewaste and forced obselence.

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[–] audaxdreik@pawb.social 90 points 4 days ago (13 children)

The article focuses a lot on the security of the boot process, but there's no reason the TPM can't be used for DRM as well (as an example, https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5283799). It's correct when it points out the locked down nature of consoles and phones.

We could conceivably be in for a future where Windows refuses to run code that's not validated even after the OS boots. Or where it sees pirated software on the system and refuses to function in some manner until the software is removed/corrected to its liking.

There are so many possibilities here and all of them are bad.

  • Forced online accounts so Microsoft always knows when/where you login
  • Stored encryption keys so Microsoft could theoretically provide access to any computer the government requests
  • Telemetry already reporting god only knows what metrics about what and how you use your software
  • Forced AI that literally watches everything you do on your screen storing it in a known location making for a valuable target and also potentially/likely being used to create more telemetry and insights into your habits
  • Eventual full control over your hardware by enforcing "trusted platform" restrictions

It's so fucking brazen I'm gobsmacked. As an elder Millennial, I get it, I can already hear most of you tallying in your head if having to care about your OS is gonna be the final straw . This is no longer a nerdy request to please use Linux, this is a five alarm fire. Add to all this how much Microsoft is in bed with the US government and potential issues with all that on the horizon and I really, truly believe it's time to switch, for your own good.

Please. Even if you're not going to run out and install Linux tomorrow, you need to start mentally preparing yourself for the inevitability of the task. Get yourself accustomed to the idea and when you're ready to dip your toes in, just know how many resources are out there for you.

And to the Linux community out there, there are going to be a lot of newcomers who don't have the technical skills to undertake this and enjoy/appreciate this in the same way as you do. Be kind to them, the need for us to support each other has never been greater. Please.

[–] Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 52 points 4 days ago (1 children)

DRM is already the primary purpose of trusted compute if you read shareholder meeting transcripts; security is a marketing side effect.

[–] audaxdreik@pawb.social 27 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (1 children)

Ya boy Richard Stallman agrees and has been saying this for years (although this article is more recentish), https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.en.html

“Treacherous computing” is a more appropriate name, because the plan is designed to make sure your computer will systematically disobey you. In fact, it is designed to stop your computer from functioning as a general-purpose computer. Every operation may require explicit permission.

As of 2022, the TPM2, a new “Trusted Platform Module”, really does support remote attestation and can support DRM. The threat I warned about in 2002 has become terrifyingly real.

Actual, honest to god reasons to upgrade to Windows 11 are already vague and questionable. Your average user probably doesn't even see any particular reason and only perceives the nuisance of it. But it's hard to fully close your iron fist around a platform when TPM enablement is so sparse in the consumer space. So what better way to do it than a mandatory OS upgrade with it as a system requirement and assure all (or a vast majority of) systems align at once?

Of course there are ways for stubborn users to skirt those requirements, but that misses the primary point of Trusted Computing. While the OS may baseline function to some degree, there's no telling what functionality may be crippled by not being in a trusted state. EDIT: For example, this could easily tie into games with anti-cheat such that they will refuse to run on Windows 11 unless TPM is enabled.

I don't know the future any better than anyone else, I'm just trying to read the winds at the moment. I suspect they may not try to pull the entire trap closed all at once and that Windows 11 may continue to more or less function as we've seen past iterations. But the pieces will be in place by then and it's only a matter of time before some greedy exec gives the word .....

[–] LedgeDrop@lemm.ee 23 points 4 days ago (1 children)

I suspect they may not try to pull the entire trap closed all at once and that Windows 11 may continue to more or less function as we've seen past iterations

Microsoft will be taking a page from Google playbook. Google has be gradually reducing the "openness" of their android platform. They now have these "security checks" enforced on android. Meaning that it's trivial for an application to determine if the phone a "genuine android" or not.

This'll trickle into webbrowser too (if it's not already in browsers like chrome). It's only a matter of time before web pages will be able to determine if they're running on a "secure OS" and fail to run. It'll start out with your banking website, then expand to shopping websites, ultimately every page will enforce it ("oh, I see you have an unauthorized browser plug in installed. We care about your security, therefore we won't run. Please restore your device to it's secure defaults.")

This future is so horrible and Linux with its 4% market share won't change anything.

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[–] medem@lemmy.wtf 24 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You can argue all you want about TPM and its 'security'. I ALWAYS thought that forcing users to use TPM 2+ hardware is planned obsolescence and nothing/no one will convince me otherwise.

The only thing affected users can and should do is to leave that PoS of an 'operating system'.

[–] rottingleaf@lemmy.world 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

It's not PoS. At its core Windows NT is very cool, and the Windows subsystem for it is not terrible.

What's PoS is that the only way you get it is with such a heap of garbage, that you can't see the good parts behind it.

And even its developers seem to have forgotten those good parts, I wonder if they ever change anything there other than "closing" vulnerabilities with yet another condition in some long-long switch ... case ... statements.

[–] plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org 55 points 4 days ago (7 children)

I can hear the ‘just use Linux/BSD/etc.’ crowd already clamoring in the comments, and will preface this by saying that although I use Linux and BSD on a nearly daily basis, I would not want to use it as my primary desktop system for too many reasons to go into here.

Still though.

🐧

[–] thesmokingman@programming.dev 31 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) (6 children)

This rings a little hollow to me. Most of the people I know that understand Linux can quickly summarize why they might not use it as their daily driver (eg staying on macOS for graphics/video or staying on Windows for desktop Word/Excel). If you can’t summarize that quickly, it really makes me wonder if you really understand it. I’m not trying to No True Scotsman my way around it; I really don’t understand.

[–] lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de 10 points 3 days ago

The reasons I personally know are "I have to use an app for work, there is no interoperable alternative, I have no leverage to replace that entire ecosystem and it won't run with wine" and "It's a company-issued device where I have no rights to change anything anyway." Combined, they make the reason that my work Laptop runs Win11, but my private PC is Linux through and through. I'd like to be able to use said app on my private PC too, but if it doesn't, no big deal.

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[–] Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 1 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Little Brother is a novel about a future dystopia where copyright laws have been allowed free rein to destroy people's lives.

It's legislated that only "secure" hardware is allowed, but hardware is by definition fixed, which means that every time a vulnerability is found - which is inevitable - there is a hardware recall. So the black market is full of hardware which is proven to have jailbreaking vulnerabilities.

Just a glimpse of where all this "trusted", "secure" computing might lead.

As a short video I saw many years ago explained on the concept: "trust always depends on mutuality, and they already decided not to trust you, so why should you trust them?"

Edit: holy shit, it's 15 years old, and "anti rrusted computing video dutch voice over" (turns out the guy is German actually) was enough to find it:

https://www.lafkon.net/work/trustedcomputing/

[–] atlien51@lemm.ee 12 points 3 days ago (2 children)

Microsoft: BUT WE’RE THE MOST ECO CONSCIOUS COMPANY WE KNOW!!!

[–] const_void@lemmy.ml 7 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You can’t say they’re not. The even have a Chief Sustainability Officer! /s

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[–] rikonium@discuss.tchncs.de 7 points 3 days ago

DON'T TURN ON DISPLAYING SECONDS IN THE TASKBAR BECAUSE THAT'LL USE MORE ENERGY!

[–] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

The writer clearly understands that something isn’t adding up with Microsoft’s claims about TPM, but nowhere do they address the accusations that Microsoft plans to use it as DRM (and potentially spying).

Similarly, only supporting certain CPU’s is suspect as hell. Between all this and Recall, it really feels like the driving design focus behind Windows 11 was to build the best spying machine they could.

[–] yarr@feddit.nl 7 points 3 days ago

I can't wait for the surge in cheap PCs available to buy and install Linux on. Please, Microsoft, lock down Windows more.

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