this post was submitted on 22 Jun 2025
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[–] huppakee@feddit.nl 68 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Everyone saying Ukraine was less a threat to Russia than Iran is to Isreal is 100% right. That is a valid point. Thing is, just being a threat is not a valid reason to bomb another country. What Merkel fails to do is provide a legal argument for Isreal and US bombing Irans nuclear facilties.

It is just more of the 'Germany should stand behind Israel because of what Germans did to Jews in WW2'. I'd much rather see her 'stand behind victims of Genocide because of what Germans did to earlier victims of genocide'. German politicians are morally wrong with these arguments.

International law is neutral. It is obvious Iran did not start this war. Iran breaking agreements does not give anyone carte-blanche for bombing them, nor does Iran supplying weapons to Russia. Israel bypassed the UN as well. Netanyahu needs to be brought to The Hague. Trump and Khominei too while we're at it, but I guess those would be separate cases.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 33 points 1 week ago (25 children)

Notably, Iran did not break any agreements. America did and Europe toed the party line.

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[–] Mohamed@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Also, the opposite is true. Israel is a big threat to Iran. Would Iran have been justified in bombing Israel first?

[–] huppakee@feddit.nl 4 points 1 week ago

Totally, might use that argument someday because i find it difficult to explain to some people what 'unprovoked' means in this case.

[–] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 40 points 1 week ago (18 children)

Fuck you merkle, you genocide denialist

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[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 24 points 1 week ago (1 children)

To be perfectly clear: at no point has Iran (a non nuclear power) actually existentially threatened Israel (a nuclear power). Netanyahu's and the Israeli far right's opportunistically alarmist rhetoric is not fact.

Merkel is just parroting Israeli far-right talking points with no basis in fact.

This is yet another example of the German political establishment taking extremist pro-israeli positions. Contemptible, shameful fucks.

[–] DMCMBFNFF@feddit.org 1 points 1 week ago (3 children)

A nuclear-armed Iran would become an existential threat to Israel.

[–] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 18 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (3 children)

The Israeli apartheid regime's genocidal policies and its reckless adventuring are far more dangerous generators of existential threats. This war all but guarantees nuclear proliferation in the middle east. Every potential rival of Israel from the Saudis and the Turks to Iranians themselves have just gotten a big red flashing warning in their inboxes that the Jewish-supremacist Israeli apartheid regime and its Jewish-supremacist allies in the West are not rational actors that can be negotiated with. The Westerners and Israel will break deals (like the deal Iran had actually signed), will negotiate in bad faith, will initiate first strikes and will bomb your civilian population following the insane Dahiya doctrine. The only thing they understand is mutually assured destruction (nobody touches the rocket-man in North Korea!). So why the fuck shouldn't all of the other regional powers race for nuclear weapons at this point?

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Edit: clarified ambiguous "they".

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[–] Saleh@feddit.org 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Why?

Since its inception by overthrowing the US and Israel installed Shah dictator the Islamic Republic has been under attack and threat by the US and Israel. Most notably the US encouraged Saddam Hussein to invade Iran right away, leading to an 8 year war with a million Iranians killed. In that time Saddam Husseins chemical warfare program was built by mainly Germany and a significant amount of precursors provided by NATO countries. Saddam used those chemical weapons agains Iran but also against the Kurdish minority.

The US and Israel have aimed at destroying Iran since the past 46 years, except for Obama. They are the existential threat.

Meanwhile Iran has sought a deal and upheld the JCPOA until Trump broke it and the Western allies rallied around the US instead of seriously upholding the deal themselves. Despite all of this Iran was seeking diplomacy again.

In order to prevent any chance of diplomacy Israel is bombing Iran since 9 days and noe Trump joined in.

The existential threats are Israel and the US.

[–] DMCMBFNFF@feddit.org 6 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Do you think this theocracy, this mullahchy, is better than the Shah?

As bad as he was—and he was bad—at least he didn't try to get nukes.

Had Saddam stayed out of Kuwait, he might still be around.

My sympathies for any of these regimes is limited.

(Modern) Israel exists because most of Europe was an antisemitic shithole, and that includes Russia and the UK; guys like Netanyahu are a product of this, and Hamas are a bunch of jihadi punks who have been used by both Iran and Israel.

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 8 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Hamas and Hezbollah are a product of Israeli invasion and occupation. The goals of Hamas are national goals, not religious goals. They have nothing to do with Al-Quaeda or ISIS. Ironically Israel has treated ISIS fighters in Syria and Israeli weapons made it into ISIS camps. Now Israeli is arming and protecting lowlife criminals in Gaza with links to ISIS to plunder UN aid convoys.

Meanwhile Iran wasn't seeking a nuke since 2003 as has been maintained by the US intelligence, in particular CIA well into this year

Instead Iran had negotiated the JCPOA with Obamas government and upheld it until Trump broke it, with the EU allies following suit to the US. Still Iran was seeking to get back to diplomacy even as Israel is now bombing Iran. But evidently neither Israel nor the US can ever be trusted with diplomacy. They will just turn around and bomb you whenever they feel like it.

[–] DMCMBFNFF@feddit.org 6 points 1 week ago

Hamas and Hezbollah are a product of Israeli invasion and occupation.

IIUC, Hezbollah are, while Hamas was useful to Israel in dividing Fatah/PLO, and on Putin's 71st birthday, giving Netanyahu the excuse he needed to do what he's been doing in Gaza.

The goals of Hamas are national goals, not religious goals.

Perhaps.

FWIW,

wp:Hamas

(my bold)

Hamas is an acronym of the Arabic phrase حركة المقاومة الإسلامية or Ḥarakah al-Muqāwamah al-ʾIslāmiyyah, meaning "Islamic Resistance Movement". This acronym, HMS, was glossed in the 1988 Hamas Covenant[66] by the Arabic word ḥamās (حماس) which itself means "zeal", "strength", or "bravery".[67]

They have nothing to do with Al-Quaeda or ISIS. Ironically Israel has treated ISIS fighters in Syria and Israeli weapons made it into ISIS camps. Now Israeli is arming and protecting lowlife criminals in Gaza with links to ISIS to plunder UN aid convoys.

Divide and rule: yep, that sounds like something Israel would do.

Meanwhile Iran wasn’t seeking a nuke since 2003 as has been maintained by the US intelligence, in particular CIA well into this year

Perhaps.

I still don't trust them anymore than the US.

Instead Iran had negotiated the JCPOA with Obamas government and upheld it until Trump broke it, with the EU allies following suit to the US. Still Iran was seeking to get back to diplomacy even as Israel is now bombing Iran. But evidently neither Israel nor the US can ever be trusted with diplomacy. They will just turn around and bomb you whenever they feel like it.

Hasanabi rules:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hasan_Piker/comments/t6ap1l/what_do_we_make_of_the_hasanabi_doctrine/#lightbox

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 11 points 1 week ago (3 children)

People tend to become an existential threat when you try to violently overthrow them for decades, I'm very smerprised.

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[–] Tudsamfa@lemmy.world 21 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I don’t fully agree that Israel is violating international law. When a country’s existence is being questioned by Iran or Hamas, it’s not so easy to respond strictly within the framework of international law,

So if you read international law strictly, it is a violation of it she just disagrees with? She was imo better than our current ICC-ignoring Merz, but come on.

People should reflect how they reacted to this article of Germany's options to develop nukes from 3 months ago. While seen as "scummy", I doubt anyone would accept a preemptive strike on countries doing what the article calls "nuclear hedging".

[–] huppakee@feddit.nl 4 points 1 week ago

Imagine instead of asking a lawyer or a judge or a jury in court we would go and ask politicians whether they think someone did or did not break the law. Would be a very different world than the one we have now. And not in a good way.

[–] RedPandaRaider@feddit.org 18 points 1 week ago

Merkel really needed another Mossad paycheck?

[–] rockerface@lemm.ee 10 points 1 week ago (2 children)

I am ashamed my country has to rely on people like these to keep existing. We aren't really in a position to turn down the help, though

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[–] EverXIII@lemmy.world 8 points 1 week ago

Is Merkel losing her perspective? Israel’s actions clearly aim to erase the Palestinian presence—only the willfully blind can deny it. Whether or not Russia’s attacks are legal, supporting Israel is a mistake. Angela, you’re smarter than this. Sometimes, silence is wiser than misguided statements.

Free Palestine

[–] Anomalocaris@lemm.ee 7 points 1 week ago

a painful part of thinking you were a leftists, but we're actually a liberal, reading and becoming an actual leftists, is learning that those I thought were "good" were not, they just weren't as bad as others.

don't criticise me, I already said I was wrong, and I'm glad to have changed.

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