this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2025
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Quotes

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Any good quotes from speeches, books, articles, etc

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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/32949307

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[–] anarchoilluminati@hexbear.net 3 points 2 days ago

Would be curious to know if he meant elections as radicals using something like the Democratic Party or a separate party? Also don't know what level of elections he means, there are really "low" offices that could be disrupted more if the election was won.

Anyway, I'm generally skeptical of running without the intention of winning. I know, bourgeois system, so on and so forth. But isn't the idea in Lenin to gain some positions of power in bourgeois systems via Communist party in order to agitate further support and have revolution? I don't see how always running without any intention to win can be ultimately helpful beyond just promotion that could be done at any time, realistically. We should win as many elections as possible in order to have revolution, not just run hopeless candidates in order to disrupt.

[–] burlemarx@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I do not agree with this position. Yes, liberal democracy is a system to domesticate the people as their participation is limited to casting votes every X years. Yes, many working class parties that engage in liberal politics end up being corrupted by the system. However, abstaining from elections only made the leftist radical discourse and ability to influence policy outcomes almost null.

Note that this is the opposite tendency of what is happening right now in Asia, with Leninist parties in Sri Lanka, India (Kerala), Nepal and others disputing and winning elections. And let's not forget the recent experiences of Venezuela, which carried out a revolution, and Colombia, with the first leftist president in the last century, which is being able to push reforms with all the other powers (legislative, judicial) against it. Or even the Bolivian case, which was able to push many reforms against the system and even overcome a bourgeois coup and a lawfare campaign.

If the radical party is able to push a popular agenda by pitting the people against the Congress, they will damage the moral of these institutions that claim to represent the will of the people, but in fact represent the interests of the capitalists. We need to destroy the system from all sides.

The big mistake is thinking that winning elections is an end in itself. Any political move must seek economic and organizational gains. The left must seek power over the bourgeois state and ability to mobilize the masses and not simply winning elections and becoming managers of bourgeois interests.

[–] KrupskayaPraxis@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 2 days ago (1 children)

True but elections can be useful to spread your ideas. It's more acceptable to campaign during the election season than outside it.

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

My reading of this is that he was in favor of participating in elections, but to disrupt, not to win.

I think this is overstated. If we participate without a credible chance to win -- just to disrupt -- we're not going to attract many people. That creates a risk of getting disconnected from the masses, as well as a risk of not adequately testing our ideas against reality. We've had plenty of miniscule, insular leftist campaigns that have achieved little -- what we need is something with at least the potential to become a mass movement.

Leftist campaigns have to both run on platforms that would be genuinely disruptive and play the game well enough to have some real shot at winning.

[–] Maeve@lemmygrad.ml 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

That's complicated when major parties sue to keep leftist candidates off the ballots in states/provinces/territories that have real potential to swing the status quo.

[–] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 hour ago

Every path to something better will be at least that complicated, likely more. Working around legal challenges is part of "playing the game well enough," and even a loss can radicalized people. How many people were radicalized by the coordinated dropout/endorsement to juice Biden's campaign in the 2020 primary? And that wasn't even some dubuous procedural issue, it was just libs being organized and hostile to the left.