this post was submitted on 23 Nov 2023

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Cuban ministers reveal details of food, fuel shortages amid economic crisis (www.reuters.com)

submitted 1 year ago by throws_lemy@lemmy.nz to c/world@lemmy.world

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[–] nix@merv.news 39 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Still unbelievable the US maintains the sanctions on Cuba

[–] mwguy@infosec.pub -2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Hold free, multiparty elections and we'll lift our sanctions, just like we did in Venezuela.

[–] electric_nan@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You don't actually believe this, do you? The US is verrryy happy to deal with and even support antidemocratic regimes, as long as it suits our geopolitical interests. The "freedom and democracy" bullshit is so threadbare at this point, that it strains the imagination to think that there is anyone left who actually believes it.

In the specific case of Cuba, the US has tried everything it could to undo the revolution in Cuba. Do you think "free, multiparty elections" would be held without overwhelming US interference?

Just as a reminder: before the revolution, Cuba was run by a dictator who was hated by the Cuban people, but loved by the US political/corporate interests. Also, the nations of the UN regularly vote overwhelmingly to end the US sanctions, which the US vetoes.

[–] mwguy@infosec.pub -1 points 1 year ago

You don't actually believe this, do you?

We just did it in Venezuela. And politicians in the US have been looking for a reason to normalize relations with Cuba since the fall of the USSR.

Elections are hardly some crazy thing to ask for.

Do you think "free, multiparty elections" would be held without overwhelming US interference?

Probably. Without the support of the USSR, we don't have as much of an existential threat posed by Cuba. Especially since the support for the embargo in the US has fallen below 50% in recent years. Neither party will end it while the Castro Dictatorship is in power because of the political pull survivors concentrated in Florida have. So whomever does it needs a "see it worked" in order to do so.

Just as a reminder: before the revolution,

Bautista predats the Cold War. We supported a lot of dictatorships in the Cold War that we wouldn't end up supporting long term. Gaddafi and Saddam are excellent examples of dictatorships we supported and then opposed post Cold War.

[+] burchalka@lemmy.world -33 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Still unbelievable the far left in USA seeing countries like Cuba and North Korea, but believing that socialism/communism can really work for good of the people.

[–] MossyFeathers@pawb.social 25 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Yes, because I'm sure that the US - one of the closest countries to Cuba - having a near-total embargo on Cuba isn't a problem. North Korea's a shit show, but Cuba didn't even stand a chance.

[+] PugJesus@kbin.social -13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The embargo is unhelpful, and should be lifted, but is by no means the primary reason for Cuba's current position. Cuba was a client state of the Soviet Union and oriented its economy not towards the needs of Cuba, but towards pleasing their Soviet benefactors for continued industrial and economic aid. Now that the Soviet Union is no more, they've spent the past 30 years not coming to terms with that fact.

[–] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They're a small island that had their biggest trading partner collapse. An economic downturn would happen to any small, sanctioned country after that, no matter how they oriented their economy.

And they actually oriented their economy more towards the need of their people than any other country in this hemisphere, when looking at health outcomes, education outcomes, etc. The US is just still angry they didn't allow foreign interests to dominate their politics and economy like so many other Caribbean and Latin countries.

The best way to find out is to just lift the embargo. If communism is so bad, then it should fail after that all by itself, right? I do find it telling that people like me, who think it's the main reason for their poor economic state, and people like you, who think Cuba brought this crisis on itself, both think that the US should remove the embargo on it. Just do it already, US lol. Florida is a lost cause for Democrats anyway.

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

They’re a small island that had their biggest trading partner collapse. An economic downturn would happen to any small, sanctioned country after that, no matter how they oriented their economy.

Yeah, an economic downturn did happen after that. That was 60 years ago. They recovered. This recent downturn? Very little to do with the embargo.

And they actually oriented their economy more towards the need of their people than any other country in this hemisphere, when looking at health outcomes, education outcomes, etc. The US is just still angry they didn’t allow foreign interests to dominate their politics and economy like so many other Caribbean and Latin countries.

What social programs they had were predicated on massive subsidies from the Soviet Union (and recently and to a lesser degree, Venezuela), and they've failed to adjust for the fact that the Soviet Union has long since fallen. It is fundamentally not a trade imbalance that hampers the Cuban economy at this point. There are livestock laws that are some 60 years old which were meant to be temporary, but have never been revised; there are supply lines which have not been renegotiated since the fall of the SovUnion; government salaries (in an economy very much run by the government still) have not been adjusted for inflation.

This is far deeper and more fundamental than a conflict between the US and Cuba.

The best way to find out is to just lift the embargo. If communism is so bad, then it should fail after that all by itself, right?

I mean, no, even if communism was as bad as red scare types think it is, lifting the embargo wouldn't destroy it. Cuba, as a sovereign country, controls the terms on which trade happens in its own borders. Lifting the embargo doesn't make businesses bloom in the middle of Havana. It just gives Cuba the ability to export directly to the US. Considering the globalization of the modern economy, it's not actually a massive increase in revenue potential. It will help some people, and harm very few, which is why it should be done, but it's not a panacea.

Lifting the embargo is the right thing to do because it's a useless drain on both countries for nothing more than a 60 year-old grudge held by the US political elite, and Cuban exiles. Not because it'll solve Cuba's problems.

[–] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The special period was in the 90's. That was a lot more recent than 60 years ago. And yes, they did adjust to the Soviet Union falling after that by trading with a few other countries, like Venezuela or Russia, but none of them have been the super power the USSR was, and they've never rose to the heights that they were at beforehand because the embargo still exists. They've renegotiated supply lines where they can, but the embargo makes it extremely difficult. They've made mistakes and been slow to adapt at times, but it's hard to describe how hard that has been on them (plus Covid ruining their tourism industry). Theres a reason the UN votes overwhelmingly every year to have the US end it. Hell, even Obama lightening the load the slightest amount started to help their economy, which shows a glimmer of the potential, before Trump made it even worse.

They noticeably had some agricultural reforms recently including loosening of what livestock can be used for. Government salaries are extremely low because the country is very poor. They've been able to keep their social programs because they're dedicated to their people more than they are keeping a few people very rich. Compare them to other poor Latin American countries and it becomes even more obvious.

Cuba wouldn't just gain the ability to export to the US, it would change a lot. The US makes it difficult for products that are made with US parts to be imported there from anywhere, they don't let ships that port at Cuba to port in the US, they pressure countries that trade with them, foreign subsidiaries of US countries can't trade with them, and more. Often countries don't find it worth it to navigate the regulations, like when Gofundme canceled funds to Cuba or Cuban people even when for medicine or whatever, during the pandemic. That's why Cuba tends to work with countries that don't mind pissing off the US, like Venezuela or Russia.

Yes, they've made mistakes, and will probably make more if the embargo is ever lifted, but at least they'd have control over their own destiny, instead of the US.

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

The special period was in the 90’s. That was a lot more recent than 60 years ago.

I meant the embargo. I may have been responding too quickly.

[–] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 2 points 1 year ago

Oh I see. You were talking about the US, I was talking the USSR. I get it. It gets harder to reply to these as the posts get longer and longer lol.

[–] Ragdoll_X@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

They literally accept the American dollar in Cuba.

[–] dirtypirate@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

I'm sure the full service tourist hotels and resorts accept US & Canadian dollars, Euros and Yen. When I was there we exchanged dollars for Cuban Unified Currency at 1:1 rate. I traded us currency for pesos with the images of Che but tourists all spend CuC.

[–] Ragdoll_X@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Socialism is when fascist dictatorship, apparently.

[–] eskimofry@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Dude shoots cuba in the face with embargo. "Why did socialism fail cuba?"

[–] PugJesus@kbin.social 13 points 1 year ago

It's very saddening. The level of poverty experienced by Cuba in the past few years is absolutely devastating.

[–] naturalgasbad@lemmy.ca 13 points 1 year ago

The US embargo of Cuba has been widely condemned by every country except Israel and Ukraine. The UN General Assembly has tried time and time again to get the US to end the embargo, but to no avail.

[–] pan_troglodytes@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Cuba imports most of the food and fuel it consumes

fuel, that makes sense - after all, Mexico is right next door, but food? cant they grow food? seems like Cuba would be perfectly situated for farming.

[–] dirtypirate@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Most of their farm land is devoted to cash crops, tobacco, coffee, sugar, the trifecta of colonial slavery. They still run steam trains on sugar cane farms on the west side of the island, there's ancient soviet tractors working the fields too.

[–] VentraSqwal@links.dartboard.social 2 points 1 year ago

To add on to what you said, a lot of their farm equipment is either Soviet, made like you said, which makes it basically extremely difficult to find replacement parts, or US-made, which also makes it nearly impossible to trade in replacement parts. They often have to leave machines just sitting there or switch to old-school animals.

Oil to run their machines is also extremely difficult to get a hold of because of things like the embargo, since they try to stop other country's ships from trading with them. They were able to make a deal with Venezuela, and Russia to a lesser extent, that helped, but not enough to meet demand, and it's been even more difficult since they've dealt with sanctions and crises of their own. Mexico is now helping, too, in defiance of the US so hopefully that helps, but it's difficult and complicated to trade around the regulations with both the US and Cuba. They also don't have much equipment or foreign expertise to refine received crude oil.

The sanctions also make the country generally poorer, making it difficult to pay for traded food.

Other colonized states that focused on cash crops for hundreds of years generally deal with the same issues: Puerto Rico imports 85% of its food, for example. Jamaica gets 43% of its food imports from the US (imagine if they emmargoed Jamaica with those statistics). Haiti imports 80-90% of its rice and wheat (a staple foods for them). Fiji produces about half the food their population needs. Some of these countries are trying to change it and have ongoing or new agricultural programs, but if you already have the infrastructure and trading partners for your cash crops (like sugar or whatever) from your colonized days, I guess it must be hard to switch over.

[–] autotldr@lemmings.world 0 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:

Nov 22 (Reuters) - Senior Cuban officials have over several weeks provided an increasingly dire snapshot of a deepening economic crisis in a series of televised prime-time appearances, revealing the extent of the downturn in unprecedented detail.

Food production, the supply of phamaceuticals and transportation are down by at least 50% since 2018, the top officials said, and continued to decline this year in large part due to chronic fuel shortages and power outages.

Cuba imports most of the food and fuel it consumes, but revenues have plunged following the pandemic, hampered by stiff U.S. sanctions and floundering tourism, once a mainstay of the Caribbean island economy.

Production of pork, rice and beans - all staples on the Cuban dinner plate - are down by more than 80% this year over pre-crisis levels and eggs 50%, Agriculture Minister Ydael Jesus Perez said.

Hospitals, short on basic supplies such as sutures, cotton and gauze, have done 30% fewer surgical procedures compared with 2019, according to data shared on state-run TV during a presentation by First Deputy Health Minister Tania Margarita Cruz.

Local authorities, increasingly under pressure as the problems and tension ratchet up, have launched programs to contain hunger, build homes and improve the flow of transportation, but remain hamstrung by a lack of funds, they have said.

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