Keep it civil.
Very sensible points all around.
My motivation to get my concealed carry permit was to carry my Glock 27 when I wanted to enjoy nature without becoming an intimate part of the local food chain.
The world is full of dudes who are overly confident about their ability to defend against a charging animal with a handgun. If anyone is interested, this is a pretty good video that dispenses with the macho bullshit and presents some level-headed perspectives.
I can't view your video, because YouTube has made a change that breaks all of the Invidious/Tubular clients I use.
You're so right, though. Handguns are almost useless against wildlife. They're good for one thing, and that's shooting people. It's what they're designed for. Much smaller, and you're lucky to hit it; much larger, and it's either an ambush predator you have no chance against, or something that's only going to get pissed off by being shot. The one useful thing a gun will do against wildlife can be done better with an air horn.
It reminds me of the old joke (which has nothing to do with guns): how do you tell the difference between a black and brown bear? The brown bear is wearing pots and pans and smells like bear spray.
There's a really good article out there about .357 magnum marketing from 50 years ago, and how it was pushed as being a "grizzly killer," but in reviewing the claims the authors found that the only recorded .357 grizzly kills were by hunters with specialized, long-barrel revolvers, hot loads, and on bears that were busy doing something else. The article claimed that, in most cases, even if you got multiple rounds into the bear, even if the bear died it would be long after it had finished mauling you to death.
I was backpacking in Northern Idaho for a few years running, which has both mountain lions and grizzly, and seriously considered bringing my 686+. After reading up on it to see if it were worth investing in a Pelican case and the TSA PITA, I came to the conclusion that it wasn't, for the reasons above.
My coworker has a similar "joke": Why do you hike with a handgun in bear county? So that, when the bear charges, you can shoot yourself and not have to experience being shredded to death.
The video is by a guy who runs a hunting channel. He dives into the old gun-versus-bear-spray question by interviewing attack survivors and game management personnel, getting some formal training, running through simulated attack drills, etc. The results are sobering. I appreciated his humble approach to the topic. I've heard too many people confidently say their 10mm Auto is all they need.
Or, the other, darker joke about two friends going backpacking, and one has a .22 "bear gun." When his friend says, "a bear gun? What's that going to do to a bear?" And his friend replies, "Oh, it's not for shooting the bear. It's for shooting you in the leg, so the bear gets you and I can get away."
I got it covered; I spray my rounds with bear spray before I load the gun.
Put bells on them, too, to scare the bears with noise.
Ooo! Whistle rounds! Those things really exist!
Ratshot.
I'd say it still has value against anything even up to a size of a bear- not because you could kill a bear with a handgun but because pretty much all animals are really scared of gunshots. Not that you would need a handgun, you could use a bear-banger or whatever.
Ever run into a bear in the woods, a mama with two babies in tow? Ever had a bear wander in your dog door? Ever had a mad assed dog chase you down the street? I have experienced all these things and I like with odds better with a gun than without.
I have no illusions. My mother raised mountain lions from the bottle. I've wrestled them in her living room. And got my ass thoroughly whipped fasted than I could react. I get it.
And then there are the 2-legged animals. There was a hunter last fall that would have kicked my ass in a second if I hadn't been open carrying. LOL, he was so mad he was shaking, but he was also very polite.
Plus, the G27 has a comically small grip. If you're trying to pick a gun for machismo, that's like slipping into a rainbow mesh T-shirt before you hit the club to prove you're not gay.
Shot own bum
Oof ouch my assholes
It's dumb and there's very little point besides your delusional powe fantasy?
You know, you could avoid all of that by not carrying a gun. Seriously, what the fuck are you so afraid of? Have you considered a blankie or a soother? It must be so stressful to be terrified all the time.
Queer person with a Mexican name in a red state.
Fascists. I'm scared of fascists.
That is fair.
Fucking LOL is it fair, o arbiter of whether someone deserves to carry a pistol?
This one person gets your permission, huh? Cool.
That's quite a strawman you've created in your own mind.
Can you point to anywhere at all that I said that someone could have a gun or not? Anywhere?
What I asked was, what are you afraid of? I also pointed out that owning a gun makes you more likely to die by gun violence and that you are far more likely to kill a loved one than ever have a situation where you can use your gun against the violent criminal or corrupt government agent that many fantasize about shooting.
I own guns. I don't care if you own guns. I just wonder if you can admit to yourself that you carry because you're afraid and acknowledge that you will die if you use the gun against the government and that having a gun makes it far more likely that you'll kill yourself or someone you love than ever use it in the violent scenarios you've created in your head.
Well I live the US right now, and we have masked men carrying guns, that randomly kidnap people off the streets. Being strapped is a must here at the moment.
That is a valid fear but pulling out a gun and shooting those masked men will get you killed.
It's either be killed instantly in the spot or die in a foreign concentration camp
If you get run over by a car while crossing the street it doesn't battery if you had the right of way, you're still dead.
Dead is dead.
Yeah but taking some of them with me. Motherfuckers going fuck around and find out. I'm not going to no death camp. And I have LGBT kids the fuck if I will allow them to be taken. Be warned when ICE starts coming for trans and gays they going die if they show up at my house. Also we have ADHD people here and people on the spectrum. These fucks will come for us all soon. But I will exercise my second amendment right. After all it was written for shit to protect us against bullshit Trump administration is pulling.
I don't want to be the first but soon or later they will knock on the wrong door, or pull into the wrong neighborhood and people will die. Mostly their side at first. But it's a powderkeg that is going go off soon or later. Unless someone in our goddamn government starts doing their job and put a stop to this shit. And I don't mean with bullshit lawsuits. Our government has the power to impeach this administration and reverse all those EOs.
But guess we will have to wait and see. Until then if you're not armed you're leaving yourself open to be taken.
I have a friend, three tours of duty as an infnatryman in Northern Ireland during thr troubles, two tours of duty as a combat medic in Bosnia, and worked as a paramedic then a police marksman in Canada. He says, "It's all fun and games until you're on a two way range." It's easy to imagine fighting back against the poilce and military but the reality is that they very rarely go down and the people shooting at them very rarely survive. The second ammendment was written in a time when the people and the military used muzzle loaders. All the second ammendment fantasies in the world don't change the fact that one person or a few people up against the police or the military is/are going to die very quickly and very thoroughly. But, by all means, hang on to that thought.
This isn't military, this ICE who right now employing a lot weekend warrior types. This fuckers have no more skill then most of us. Also they aren't expecting people to fight back. Hell most places they raid are immigrant court or schools. Places they feel safe are unarmed. When they see armed crowds they normally just run away.
Also we on the defensive need to band together. Hard to kidnap people if there is a crowd of resistance. Also is your friend wanting or willing to help kidnap or kill his fellow Americans, and lead them off to camps on the demand of Donald Trump?
Aye, there's the rub.
One person with a CCW dies. Every time.
If a bunch of people go up against the government a whole bunch of people die but maybe change happens.
Remember January 6? A whole bunch of people with violent intent invaded the capital baying for blood then a bullet ripped through Ashli Babbitt's chest and she fell to the ground dead. Everyone else thought, "Holy fuck! They're shooting white people!" and it was over.
EDIT: Downvotes against ideas you don't like on Lemmy are just about as effective as your AR-15 is going to be against an armored Humvee mounted with a minigun but by all means, keep up the good fight.
One person with a CCW dies. Every time.
I've made the choice to die with my boots on, should it come to that. This is not machismo, it's a thing I've thought long and hard about. Also, I have a brown immigrant wife. I'll die before I see her dragged from her home screaming and pleading.
That's a realistic take. I wouldn't go to war and wouldn't let me kids go to war because some rich asshole is waving his dick around or some coporation wants to protect their investment. If you come for my family you're going to have a real fight on your hands.
I have lots of deadly animals that loves to roam my land. I’m also in a state that I can legally carry. All my neighbors also carry. It’s necessary to protect ourselves.
Both can be right. This article is not about that sort of carry or even about those locations though. Its about concealed carry in a city. Which I am also for... But damn That's a shitty article just for the sake of pro gun propaganda.
Lots of people conceal carry in my city, it’s such a normal thing here that no one really thinks about it.
I live on land with lots of deadly animals and I carry a gun when I'm in the woods. OP was commenting about CCW in public, that's a COMPLETLY different situation. Do you carry to do your groceries? To buy donuts. If so, what are you so afraid of? I've been all over the US and Canada, Europe, and Central and South America and NEVER felt the need to carry a gun. I guess I'm just braver than the assholes who need to carry an AR to buy donuts and coffee.
I feel the same way. Carry in the country if there are predator risks if you want, but I don't get the desire to carry around town. I took my states cc course, thoyght it'd be nice to carry to the range without some annoyances or to a few other gun centric places, but after the course I never felt the need to push through and get a license. Partly because all the guys I saw getting one just seemed scared to me. It was almost exclusively fear from them and it weirded me out. But also I just no longer felt that I needed to carry a gun.
I'm still pro-gun but I'm also in favor of better controls like more extensive education(my cc course was a joke), psychological evaluation, and licensing. I don't think scared people should carry concealed guns into public. That's asking for problems and accidents.
The need to defend yourself with a firearm is generally very low, even in the US. Most people won't ever need one.
But there are times when if you do need one, you really need one. And at least in the US, the institutions that are supposed to help can often make things worse, especially if you're a minority (U.S. police forces have an incredibly high ratio of white supremacist, racist, and violently abusive pro-fascist members).
In the case of the recent killing of the couple in Arkansas, the killer would've been unlikely to be deescalated, as he seemed to have set out to kill someone at random to begin with.
Help was too far away to offer any assistance when it was most needed, and the end result is two innocent parents dead, and two children who will be traumatized for life. A gun would've drastically increased the odds of the parents surviving.
Ready access to firearms in a society does also bring with it many downsides, such as a higher likelihood of suicide and mass shootings, and the heavy adoption of firearms by right-wing people who then seem prone to developing a culture of violence being glorified or romanticized.
But I think ultimately, if a society has poor options that can't be fully relied upon for an individual in those admittedly uncommon horrific scenarios, then it's unfortunately up to that individual to determine if they wish to have the means to secure their own safety and survival in such an event.
And when the gun comes out you are many times more likely to be killed. You have been fed a lie about defending yourself by the gun lobby to seek more guns and make rich people richer. Guns kill many times more people than they save in the US you are far more likely to kill someone you love than you are to ever use your gun to defend yourself.
SOURCE: 25 years in guns and badges.
And when the gun comes out you are many times more likely to be killed.
This is ultimately dependent on the situation. Pulling a gun on a nervous mugger? Absolutely increasing the chances of being killed.
Holing up your bedroom and pointing a shotgun at a door that will be kicked in? High chance of the firearm saving your life if the person on the other side intends deadly harm.
I agree that access to firearms does increase the chances of it being used in anger against others, or against yourself if suicidal, as I mentioned in my previous post. But you're not addressing that the apparatus in the US designed to help people in those rare dangerous situations are deeply flawed, and can in fact be as deadly as the threat you are calling them to help against, depending on your own skin color and disposition of your local police department.
I think in Europe and Japan, where there seems to be less of a chance of those specific problems within the police, the argument against gun ownership is stronger. But personally I think the argument for the populace to disarm before solving the problems of those institutions is not one I can get behind.
I would also say it's not a great idea to disarm if your government is actively turning toward becoming a fascist totalitarian state, which the US currently is.
I'm sorry that you're afraid it's got to be very stressful.
I'm a little bewildered why you're being condescending toward my comments, but responded "That is fair" to @nagaram@startrek.website who made a similar argument to mine.
Nagaram said that they were afraid and why. Their fears were valid. It's got to be very stressful for Nagaram to be in that situation, doesn't it? I'm sorry that Nagaram is in that situation that makes them afraid.
I'm not being condescending to Nagaram, I have empathy for their situation.
Why are you being so defensive about your fear?
Blankie didn't help me when a dude pulled a knife on me, but putting my hand on the grip of a gun sure made him nope right the fuck out.
Didn't even have to pull it out of the holster. Try that with your blankie.
I've had guns pointed at me. I deescalated the situation and walked away. Try doing that by putting your hand on your gun.