Today on hydraulic press channel we have this Russia. It is extremely dangerous and could attack at any time. We must deal with it.
this post was submitted on 18 Dec 2023
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Anni: [laughs in the background]
Do the Finns really want it back after Russia has had their way with the area for over 80 years?
No, not really. The stolen Karelia is lost and we've made our peace with that fact.
There are a few idiots who nowadays mainly screech on the Internet and want to take it back, but about 99,9% of our population is content with the current borders
As is common to them, the Russians have not developed the infrastructure of the region and the old Finnish cities are in in pretty downbeat shape. The roads are in terrible condition (except the ones that lead to oligarch's summer villas) and they've dumped their garbage everywhere. I've visited the fabled land of my ancestors and what I saw just made me sad.
Restoring Karelia even to a pre-WWII-level would take decades and probably cost tens of billions or even more. The population is almost purely ethnic Russians - what would we do with them?
If by some magic the land would be offered back to us, free of charge and without the current population, we would still be wary to take it. The old border basically went through the suburbs of St.Petersburg, that would eventually cause severe problems due to the unchanging nature of Russia. So no, let them keep it as long as they stay on their side of the border.
The last time they attacked we were unprepared and still they paid a heavy price. Now we've had almost 80 years to prepare our defenses, and we have oh so many glorious surprises ready if the need ever arises.
Excellent trolling - I almost believed you were Finnish.
Miksi luulet etten olisi? Eikä tapana ole ollut trollata, sen jätän ryssille ja vähämielisille.
That is credible. Sorry about Karelia, it sounds like it WAS beautiful. Why did your country re open the border with Russia after recently closing it for about 2 weeks? They say it was due to illegal crossings? Your thoughts? Also, thanks for sending thousands of those little cube survival stoves to Ukranian forces, can you ship one to me COD? It's 5C here.
The border was reopened because we have no desire to keep the border closed, we have many citizens with Russian ancestry and we want them to be able to move across the border to see their relatives.
But because Russia still keeps pushing illegal immigrants towards our border, we had to close the border again. Putin probably thinks he's "punishing" us for joining NATO.
It would serve everyone best if they stopped playing this stupid game, even my own extended family has been affected by the closing of the border.
According to a survey conducted by ProKarelia, the area has natural advantages that, under Finnish rule, would make it a centre of trade with Russia
I would suggest using a different argument
"A centre of trade with Russia" is pretty useless if they decide to attack Finland over Karelia or have hostile relations with them over it.
No we don't. It's too late
Finland was first created some time during the Cold War between Russia and the West.
Japan-Soviet relations had always been shaky at best, but also incredibly secretive. Even as early as 1925 Japan and the Soviet Union had secret deals with each other regarding fishing rights between the two countries, with the Soviet Union giving up much of it's fishing rights to Japan with seemingly no explanation as to why.
These secretive treaties and alliances continued right up until just before the fall of the Soviet Union, Gorbachev made trips to Japan months before the fall of the Soviet Union stating the entire time how the relations between them were improving, even when Soviet relations with the rest of the world were worsening.
In fact the entire past 100 years of Japanese-Russian relations bring up many unanswered questioned.
Why at the height of WW2, were the battles between these two countries minimal despite being on opposing sides?
Why did Japan sign a peace treaty with Russia in 1941, just months before their allies, Germany, went to war with Russia?
Why were relations between Japan and Russia always good throughout the Cold War, despite the major geopolitical differences between the countries, and close geographical positions that you think would cause tensions?
The answer is simple, they shared a common secret. A common asset that worked in both of their favours. And that asset was Finland.
It's unclear when Finland was first thought up, some say it was during the Cold War, and others say it was as far back as the 1920's, but the necessity of Finland is quite simple.
Japan can fish in the region of ocean between Sweden and Russia without worry for environmental repercussions, after all, nobody's going to expect fishing regulations to be broken in a place where everyone thinks there's a landmass will they? And in return Russia get a percentage of the fish to distribute amongst their populace.
It's a simple case of fishing the Finnish Sea, transporting it across Russia, (that was the real reason for the construction of the Trans-Siberian railway by the way), and then shipping it from the Eastern Russian coast to Japan under the disguise of 'Nokia' products.
This is why Nokia is the largest 'Finnish' company, and it is also why Japan is the largest importer of Nokia products, despite the fact that very few people own Nokia phones in the country.
There are clearly some unanswered questions to this conspiracy that I'll try and address below.
1- What about Finnish people? Are they all in on the conspiracy?
A. No. People from Finland genuinely believe they're from Finland. In reality they are from small towns on either the Eastern part of Sweden, the Western part of Russia, or the Northern part of Estonia.
2- What about all of Finland's other exports other than Nokia?
A. Finland's three biggest, and three most well known areas of industry are Oil, Tech, and Software. The oil is gathered in offshore platforms where the rest of us believe the landmass of Finland is, (again the Japanese get to avoid rigging regulations in this respect), the Tech companies have already been explained above with the Nokia post, and Software companies can easily redirect their IP Address through the Finnish sea. As for other Finnish exports, well, claiming Santa comes from your country isn't a viable way to get people to believe in it.
3- What about Helsinki? That is an enormous city on the world stage.
A. Helsinki is located in Eastern Sweden. It's not like the people flying there would notice.
4- What about everywhere else in Finland? There's a lot to it and it couldn't all be made up.
A. 99% of Finland is lake and/or forest. A lot of it doesn't need to be accounted for when addressing Finnish geography.
5- Why do other countries go along with it?
A. At first it was a sign of goodwill between Western Countries and the Soviet Union. A bargaining chip that could be played. But Finland has since evolved to something much more. An idealistic placeholder for what countries should aspire to. No real country could so consistently place first in Education, Healthcare, Gender Equality, Literacy Rates, National Stability, The least corrupt government in the world, Freedom of the press. It's a concept for countries and people to aspire to. But that's where the problems about Finland's existence is disputed. no country in the world can possibly be that good.
6- Why the name Finland?
A. The country was originally made for fishing. What do fish have? Fins. Thus Finland.
7- What about the Finnish language?
A. Look up the similarities between Japanese and Finnish. It may surprise you how similar they are. Which is weird considering the vast distances between them.
8- I'm Finnish and your attack on my people and culture is insulting.
A. I'm not insulting Finnish people or culture. I don't even deny that there is Finnish culture. When you have a collective of a few million people identifying as Finnish then of course a culture will be built around it. I'm simply saying that that the landmass of Finland isn't actually there. It doesn't mean there can't be a culture or identity of being Finnish however.
9- This is an enormous conspiracy to keep secret, how could nobody else of realized it?
A. Other people have realized it. But imagine the ridiculousness of the statement 'I don't believe Finland exists'. Even if we did have undeniable proof of something put in front of us we would still hold the opinion that most of our friends, family, and acquaintances hold to not disrupt social convention. It's part of the human condition.
10- What about GPS and Satellite Images?
A. It's manipulated and forged. In the parts of Estonia, Sweden, and Russia that are allocated as 'Finnish zones' the GPS locations are changed to match that of Finland. Satellite images are forged. This is how that part of the world really looks.
Excuse me, but Finland is 99% lake, not forest.
Amended.
Suur-Soumi rears its head again. Let's hope Sweden, Norway and Estonia is left out of the expansion plans this time around
This is usually what I do in Hearts of Iron.
Even if Finland doesn't want it, they gonna get it so the Map looks nice.
NATO can help!