Europe aims to ramp up weapons to help Ukraine defeat Russia : worldnews

[–] filoria@lemmy.ml 30 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The source added that the UK’s weapons stockpiles are so diminished that the UK had “nothing” left and it was better for them to lobby the Germans.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 4 points 8 months ago

You heard em folks, pile into the boat cause we're taking over England

[–] ladicius@lemmy.world 15 points 8 months ago (2 children)

We are starting now? This late? To "aim to" ramp up?

Bit late I'd say.

[–] Ab_intra@lemmy.world 18 points 8 months ago

Don't let this fool you. Europe has been supporting Ukraine since the start of the war. They also are giving them more now than what US is.

[+] stoy@lemmy.zip -7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Still better than never.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 4 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Would you say doing CPR on a dead body is better late than never?

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip -4 points 8 months ago (3 children)

So European arms manufacturing is dead?

No? Because then your comparison is invalid.

As for your scenario, all emergency services will instruct you to do CPR untill trained personal arives, so even if you think a person is dead, you should still do it untill you hear from a licensed person telling you to stop after they made the determination.

[–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

So European arms manufacturing is dead?

Yeah, and so is America's

America, EU and the rest of the collective west are being outproduced by Russia, Iran and the DPRK

[–] stoy@lemmy.zip 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I get that we have run very low on munitions, but my point is that we still have factories that are in fact producing munitions, it is not like Bofors and similar companies have stopped existing, they are still producing munitions.

This means that they are still alive.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 months ago

Europe has proven itself incapable of even fulfilling the commitment to produce a million shells only ending up scraping 30% of that while prices jumped from 2k to 8k:

In October, NATO’s senior military officer, Adm. Rob Bauer, said that the price for one 155mm shell had risen from 2,000 euros ($2,171) at the start of Russia’s full-scale invasion to 8,000 euros ($8,489.60).

European industrial costs have now skyrocketed in absence of cheap pipeline gas, and the companies have zero interest eating the cost of building out a military industrial complex given that the war is very obviously lost. This is simply not profitable to do, and no sane capitalist would do this.

The reason Russia is able to ramp up its military industry is because it's state owned. Once again we see that the west ended up getting high on its own supply about the efficiency of free markets.

[–] Urist@lemmy.ml 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

How long before Russia, Iran and DPRK topple western hegemony with their massive guns? For real though, I think this statement is a little bullshit if you choose to exclude China from the equation.

[–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

There is no proof China has been supplying Russia with war material any more than they've been doing to Ukraine

[–] Urist@lemmy.ml -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

True and not something I implied. I just do not think Russia, Iran and DPRK are anything near outscaling western weapons production and research without China. Maybe for some subset of the industry, but not as a whole.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 6 points 8 months ago

The UK already stated they don't have any munitions to send. The US is literally taking munitions back from allies because it doesn't have enough to send.

As for you taking the metaphor so specifically, let's hope the negotiators tell the EU that it's over and establish a ceasefire.

[–] InputZero@lemmy.ml 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

To continue from your point, do CPR until you become exhausted. CPR is very physically demanding you should be cracking ribs. For anyone interested the order of operations is, call 911, determine if you need to do CPR, call for bystanders to take over chest comprehensions when you get exhausted if possible, then begin CPR for as long as you can maintain it. The most important thing is to call 911, chest comprehensions don't bring people back from the dead, it gives the patient time for the paramedics to arrive.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (2 children)

Donald Trump was the first US president to send weapons to Ukraine and every politician in the world knows this

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 13 points 8 months ago

Sorry sweaty but that’s not the Atlantic Council approved narrative. Trump is a Putin puppet because pee pee tapes.

[–] Urist@lemmy.ml 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Not an american here, but is it not the congress that allocates funds and the president only signs off on it? My understanding was that Trump tried to get a quid pro quo in order to follow it through.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 5 points 8 months ago

Biden is currently bypassing Congress to sell weapons to Israel, so no, Congress is not solely responsible for weapons sales. Trump did withhold lethal aid from Ukraine for quid pro quo. That was after the first ever sales of weapons though. So he both made the first sales and also did the witholding of additional sales some time later.

[–] flambonkscious@sh.itjust.works 9 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This is great and all, but ...the times? Aren't they a total trash/rag paper?

[–] CaptainPedantic@lemmy.world 2 points 8 months ago

In my mildly educated opinion, I wouldn't say so. The Sun, The Daily ~~Heil~~ Mail, and The Daily Mirror are rags. The Times has its issues, as any paper does, but I wouldn't call it a rag. It's a center right paper with high factual reporting.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 6 points 8 months ago

Well unless they've also invented a time machine to send those weapons back to like 1992...

[–] filoria@lemmy.ml 3 points 8 months ago

Archive link: https://archive.is/93VI1

[–] LoomingMountain@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Really wish we wouldn't because that money could be used in our country. People duying on the street from cold, malnutrition, homelessness. But we're sending money to a country that's doomed to fail its war effort and last year vetod a very generous peace deal that Russia proposed. Screw that.

[–] athos77@kbin.social 1 points 8 months ago (2 children)

last year vetod a very generous peace deal that Russia proposed.

Oh, you mean the "very generous peace deal" where Russia got to keep all the land it invaded, the children it stole, and the materials it looted - at least until they re-grouped their military and decided to take the next bite out of Ukraine? Fuck that "very generous peace deal".

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

And the deal will be much worse now with hundreds of thousands more people having died. All because imbeciles who didn't have to fight themselves kept repeating these psychotic points. Blood of hundreds of thousands is on the hands of people like you. You lot dragged this war out and caused incomprehensible misery all for nothing.

[–] yogthos@lemmy.ml -1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Pretty hilarious that the imbeciles running Europe think they can just create a whole military industrial complex out of whole cloth. These are the same kind of clowns who think that food just magically appears in the supermarket. They have no concept of logistics, supply chains, energy production, or a skilled work force required for such an endeavour. This is what happens when a bunch of media people start running countries. They just think everything is like a movie, and that they can just print weapons the way they print money. 🤣

[+] citizen@normalcity.life -11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Anyone who aims to ramp up weapons is a thread for humanity

[–] taanegl@beehaw.org 10 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I'm sure Putin and his oligarchs are deeply concerned and would like to disarm any nazi you know of, especially if they reside in a Baltic or Slavic nation and hold state office.

Jokes aside, the fact remains: if Russia wins, you can expect weapons manufacturing to increase even more and that those supposed immovable borders promised with modernity start shifting again like "in the good old days".

Nobody wants a return to old Europe, especially Europeans.

[–] citizen@normalcity.life 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Jokes aside, the fact remains: if Russia wins, you can expect weapons manufacturing to increase

That's stupid logic, if you don't want weapons manufacturing to increase you stop increasing it. The thread is about european leaders wanting to ramp up weapons not decreasing them

[–] interolivary@beehaw.org 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

So not manufacturing weapons will somehow stop Russia?

[–] citizen@normalcity.life 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Sure it will as there's a global race at arms. Russia has X weapons so we must have X+1, this degenerates to the point where you are spending all your money on destructive weapons and you have rockets in your garden waiting to be used. There are a thousand ways to fight off russia that don't involve manufacturing more explosive such as for example not closing an eye on countries like turkey and emirates providing a workaround to russia sanction but guess what? Producing more weapons is a much greater deal for european leaders

[–] interolivary@beehaw.org 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You're assuming that Russia doesn't have any imperialist aims and will simply magically turn peaceful once the evil, evil west stops manufacturing weapons

[–] citizen@normalcity.life 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I assume every nation with an army have imperialist aims

[–] interolivary@beehaw.org 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

That's certainly a take. So eg. Finland is an imperialist country because we have a military, which is definitely not meant to just keep the Russians from rolling over the border and doing a Ukraine / Georgia / Chechnya to us. I take it your view is that if we or the Georgians or Ukrainians didn't have a military, we wouldn't be in any danger?

[–] citizen@normalcity.life 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yes finland is just as imperialistic as the others they just are not in position to invade anyone. You don't need an army to defend yourself from someone, people can defend themself much better without someone above them punishing them if they don't follow authoritarian orders.

[–] taanegl@beehaw.org -1 points 8 months ago

Spot the anarchist. What's an anarchist defensive force look like anyways?

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