this post was submitted on 06 Jan 2024
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[–] JoMiran@lemmy.ml 66 points 11 months ago (3 children)

...because they seek to help the country build its own military-industrial base.

Clickbait headlines are infuriating.

[–] archonet@lemy.lol 10 points 11 months ago (1 children)

... oh, sure. like we did with Afghanistan?

This will surely go well!

[–] PanArab@lemmy.ml 10 points 11 months ago

The US is cutting its losses and moving on it seems. They aren't going to even try the Afghanistan or Vietnam approach of propping up a puppet regime. Though there's a lot of crazy people in the US government, I can see them repeating the same mistakes but expecting a different outcome.

[–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

is there any reason to believe russia would allow ukraine to build factories without bombing them?

[–] Skua@kbin.social -1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Well Russia hasn't managed to destroy Ukraine's existing manufacturing capacity, so yes. Minister of Strategic Industries Kamyshin claimed a twenty-fold increase in artillery shell production over 2023 a couple of months ago, and while he's obviously going to be leaning towards a favourable view of the situation given his job I think that the many deals signed by Ukraine's NATO suppliers to begin manufacturing within Ukraine suggest that there is some substance to his words. Russia does not have access to most of Ukraine and, despite Ukraine's lack of a real airforce, has not been able to successfully establish air superiority.

[–] Krause@lemmygrad.ml -1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Well Russia hasn’t managed to destroy Ukraine’s existing manufacturing capacity

they have though

Minister of Strategic Industries Kamyshin claimed a twenty-fold increase in artillery shell production over 2023 a couple of months ago

they can claim whatever they want for propaganda, in the real world we can observe their artillery shortages and failed offensives

despite Ukraine’s lack of a real airforce, has not been able to successfully establish air superiority

you don't need air superiority to destroy a factory, please put aside the wishful thinking for 5 minutes if you can

troops can retreat, equipment can be relocated somewhere else, a factory is a static building that you CANNOT MOVE, no matter how much air defense you put near it eventually a missile, drone or shell will go through and damage/destroy it

[–] Skua@kbin.social 1 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Russia is one of the biggest artillery manufacturers and stockpilers in the entire world and even they're suffering some shell constraints. There is a lot of space between "literally all the ammunition you could want" and "zero ammunition", especially in a conflict like this. Both sides are fighting in a way that will eat basically any volume of artillery ammunition that is available. So no, shell constraints do not indicate a totally destroyed domestic industry.

a factory is a static building that you CANNOT MOVE

That's why you don't build it near the front line. Ukraine is big. Russian aircraft attacking a factory in Kyiv or even further west would have to spend absolutely ages in extremely hostile airspace.

[–] NateNate60@lemmy.world 24 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Before you all comment: read the article. It's not that long.

Ukrainian Pravda lays out information in an extremely clear and concise way. This is the news, this is why, and this is the quote. That's it. One sentence each. It's very to-the-point.

That being said, the headline is misleading rubbish. The US isn't abandoning Ukraine, it wants Ukraine to be able to defend itself without needing to rely on American aid.

[–] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

That's what abandonment is

[–] deft@ttrpg.network 0 points 11 months ago
[–] FuckyWucky@hexbear.net 20 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

i mean can't Russia blow up any domestic weapons factories like they've done in the past. US just wants to show that they are still very slava ukraini because it will be bad optics to say they're abandoning their ally.

Earlier, the White House announced that the US has no money for further military aid for Ukraine until the adoption of a new package by the US Congress.

Yea sure there is no money for military aid but somehow there is enough money to build weapons factories which require much more upfront capital and is at the risk of being attacked.

[–] Joncash2@lemmy.ml 10 points 11 months ago

The bigger issue is they're saying they're decreasing support as of this year. Even if we ignore the fact that Russia will bomb those factories, factories don't just pop up magically. Often taking years to build in the first place. If the support dries up as of this year, there's no way Ukraine would be able to switch to domestic production.

Essentially what's really being said is Ukraine will be stuck in a stalemate at best for this year and domestic production might support Ukraine enough for future years assuming there are no delays to factory creation. But just look at the chips act to see how well factory creation goes.

[–] ShimmeringKoi@hexbear.net 15 points 11 months ago

Man I'm on a roll with posting shocked-pikachu today, there's just a lot of shocked-pikachu-type news coming out rn

[–] FireTower@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

State Department spokesman Matthew Miller:

"We will continue to support Ukraine… As long as it takes. That does not mean that we are going to continue to support them at the same level of military funding that we did in 2022 and 2023." -Miller

"But we are not there yet, and that is why it is so critical that Congress pass the supplemental funding bill, because we are not yet at the point where Ukraine can defend itself just based on its own," -Miller

[–] IsThisLoss@hexbear.net 2 points 11 months ago