A community for respectful discussion and memes related to autism acceptance. All neurotypes are welcome.
We have created our own instance! Visit Autism Place the following community for more info.
Community:
Values
Rules
Encouraged
.
Helpful Resources
My theory is that they are living in a world of hierarchies and apologizing is admitting a mistake, which takes them down a few levels on the hierarchy of power/popularity.
Nah, intention is what matters to judge a person, accidents or ignorance are unavoidable, and many other parts of human nature at play here as well...
You also need to just understand that people are flawed and what they do about that is what matters.
Yup exactly. I would even go so far as to say that insisting on getting an apology when they had no intention of hurting is tyrannic. "You were insensitive and now i'm hurt. Now i have the right to make you feel the same way!" -- No, doesn't compute.
Accidents of ignorance are unavoidable, but accountability is important.
We all make mistakes, what we do about them includes taking responsibility and apologizing, otherwise we're bound to repeat them and spoil relationships.
All very true. Now if it's something that repeatedly happens despite them now knowing it's hurtful? Well then even if the action itself isn't deliberate, the inaction to notice/stop or change can make it equivalent to being deliberate.
That´s another story jaja.
I think some people's self-worth relies on them being "good"/right/perfect, so they can't apologize without also hurting themselves. I don't really get it either, because in my experience being able to apologize when you need to, is a huge strength. People will overlook almost any mistake you've made when they know that you feel bad about it, instead of having it turn into an useless conflict.
Even if you don't feel like apologizing surely you can say "I didn't mean to hurt you and I'll try not to do it again" or even "I didn't mean to hurt you but I don't really care about your feelings/I think you're being unreasonable" so you know where they stand.
"I'm sorry you feel that way" 😡
If I have acted in a way that has resulted in someone feeling hurt, I am empathetic to their pain. If my choices could reasonably be attributed to negligence or malice I believe it is my responsibility to apologize.
There is an exception however. I will not apologize simply because someone is hurt unless I have done something I can consider "fault". I may not apologize but I will try to find a way to express my sympathize & if possible look for ways to avoid the same result in the future.
There are plenty of people who will use their pain (real or fake or mixtures) to try to avoid personal responsibilities or externalize their problems. Gaslighting uses this. People CAN gaslight unintentionally even. For both parties I think it's important to apologize when you have knowingly or unknowingly done something wrong, but be careful taking on responsibility for hurt when it is not yours to take on.
Recently, I've set a personal boundary that in cases where the person is out of hand and gaslighting, I start considering terminating the relationship all together.
What would it help if they apologize if they don't mean it/see what they did wrong? If it wasn't person As intention to hurt person B, but B insists that person A apologizes, it would result in A apologizing for Bs feelings aka "I'm sorry you feel this way". I don't think that that's better.
I'd like them to acknowledge what they did wrong even if they didn't mean to hurt me? It really doesn't take much
But isn't that the point? They don't think that they did something wrong. They didn't intend to hurt you with their action, which they try to convey to you, but they don't think that their action was wrong in principle. Like baking an apple pie for a group where someone is allergic to apples and they didn't know that or simply just forgot. The action of baking a pie is not something to apologize for even if someone felt left out because they couln't eat it and therefore were hurt.
I didn't interpret this comic to be about situations like baking an apple pie for someone they didn't know is allergic to apples. Who would call that "acting really awful?" I interpreted it as when someone does something mean or hurtful, like actually genuinely hurtful that they should not have done and should not do again, and they refuse to acknowledge it just because their intention wasn't to hurt someone's feelings. This is how people respond when I ask them to, e.g., stop saying bigoted things or using manipulation tactics.
Depends on the situation. For instance if my going to work causes someone else to get hurt and cry because I'm triggering their abandonment issues.. I'm sorry, I don't mean to hurt you, I wish it didn't, but I'm going to have to go to work again.
So if I just do a blanket apology, it will feel hollow since the action MUST happen again.
If I say sorry I hurt your feelings, it also feels hollow because I'm not acknowledging responsibility.
In situations like this displaying empathy and not apologizing are the best because your not making a promise it won't happen again, but you are trying to help someone navigate the emotional situation, and hopefully build the tools to handle this in the future.
it's just the bad ones in my experience
I think it's about identity and perception of self.
could you please elaborate?
I'm talking about those chronically unable to apologize, and that don't seem able to learn here.
Some people have trouble separating actions and character, so admitting to committing a mistake becomes emotionally as admitting they're bad persons, and that threatens their sense of identity.
The emotional connection to their wrongdoing isn't guilt, but shame for who they are.
It's connected to low self esteem, in the worst cases to narcissism.
Yass! I got out of a relationship with a narcissist in Oct/Feb. She was unable to apologize for anything the entire time. It was like she has this mortal fear of apologizing. It was incredibly hurtful to say the least, but interesting as a case study. She was seriously incapable of taking accountability.
It hurts me to see your post, pls apologize