this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2024
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    How to pickup girls 101 (sh.itjust.works)
    submitted 6 months ago by 0x4E4F@sh.itjust.works to c/linuxmemes@lemmy.world
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    [–] can@sh.itjust.works 45 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (3 children)

    A quotation circulates on the Internet, attributed to me, but it wasn't written by me.

    Here's the text that is circulating. Most of it was copied from statements I have made, but the part italicized here is not from me. It makes points that are mistaken or confused.

    I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux,” and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use.

    Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

    The main error is that Linux is not strictly speaking part of the GNU system—whose kernel is GNU Hurd. The version with Linux, we call “GNU/Linux.” It is OK to call it “GNU” when you want to be really short, but it is better to call it “GNU/Linux” so as to give Torvalds some credit.

    We don't use the term “corelibs,” and I am not sure what that would mean, but GNU is much more than the specific packages we developed for it. I set out in 1983 to develop an operating system, calling it GNU, and that job required developing whichever important packages we could not find elsewhere.

    [–] Gork@lemm.ee 41 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (5 children)

    No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation.
    Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ.

    One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you?

    (An operating system) != (a distribution). Linux is an operating system. By my definition, an operating system is that software which provides and limits access to hardware resources on a computer. That definition applies whereever you see Linux in use. However, Linux is usually distributed with a collection of utilities and applications to make it easily configurable as a desktop system, a server, a development box, or a graphics workstation, or whatever the user needs. In such a configuration, we have a Linux (based) distribution. Therein lies your strongest argument for the unwieldy title 'GNU/Linux' (when said bundled software is largely from the FSF). Go bug the distribution makers on that one. Take your beef to Red Hat, Mandrake, and Slackware. At least there you have an argument. Linux alone is an operating system that can be used in various applications without any GNU software whatsoever. Embedded applications come to mind as an obvious example.

    Next, even if we limit the GNU/Linux title to the GNU-based Linux distributions, we run into another obvious problem. XFree86 may well be more important to a particular Linux installation than the sum of all the GNU contributions. More properly, shouldn't the distribution be called XFree86/Linux? Or, at a minimum, XFree86/GNU/Linux? Of course, it would be rather arbitrary to draw the line there when many other fine contributions go unlisted. Yes, I know you've heard this one before. Get used to it. You'll keep hearing it until you can cleanly counter it.

    You seem to like the lines-of-code metric. There are many lines of GNU code in a typical Linux distribution. You seem to suggest that (more LOC) == (more important). However, I submit to you that raw LOC numbers do not directly correlate with importance. I would suggest that clock cycles spent on code is a better metric. For example, if my system spends 90% of its time executing XFree86 code, XFree86 is probably the single most important collection of code on my system. Even if I loaded ten times as many lines of useless bloatware on my system and I never excuted that bloatware, it certainly isn't more important code than XFree86. Obviously, this metric isn't perfect either, but LOC really, really sucks. Please refrain from using it ever again in supporting any argument.

    Last, I'd like to point out that we Linux and GNU users shouldn't be fighting among ourselves over naming other people's software. But what the heck, I'm in a bad mood now. I think I'm feeling sufficiently obnoxious to make the point that GCC is so very famous and, yes, so very useful only because Linux was developed. In a show of proper respect and gratitude, shouldn't you and everyone refer to GCC as 'the Linux compiler'? Or at least, 'Linux GCC'? Seriously, where would your masterpiece be without Linux? Languishing with the HURD?

    If there is a moral buried in this rant, maybe it is this:

    Be grateful for your abilities and your incredible success and your considerable fame. Continue to use that success and fame for good, not evil. Also, be especially grateful for Linux' huge contribution to that success. You, RMS, the Free Software Foundation, and GNU software have reached their current high profiles largely on the back of Linux. You have changed the world. Now, go forth and don't be a nag.

    Thanks for listening.

    [–] germanatlas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 25 points 6 months ago

    Babe wake up, a new copypasta just dropped

    [–] pimeys@lemmy.nauk.io 21 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    I call it Wayland/Linux.

    [–] wfh@lemm.ee 20 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 children)

    Man I love my Firefox/Gnome/Wayland/GNU/systemd/Linux/GRUB operating system!

    [–] glitchy_nobody@leminal.space 1 points 6 months ago

    Everybody kept insulting his OS stack for bloat so... he uninstalled. Some say he still lurks on the boards from mobile, posting incoherently about "LFS" and "His own distro with blackjack and hookers." Others say he's still there compiling, waiting for the day he can open a browser.

    [–] fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 months ago

    Why is Linux unique in this? Windows, Mac, Solaris, and BSD all don't follow that nomenclature.

    Also get why the FSF nags a bit, many in industry would be very happy to remove the FSF all together and focus on maximizing software development for corporations instead of maximising freedom for users.

    [–] itsnotits@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

    for Linux's* huge contribution

    [–] ricdeh@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

    You seem to lack an understanding of operating system architecture. Linux is indeed only the kernel and not an operating system by itself. There is endless amounts of primary and secondary literature on that. And from its earliest conception onward, when Linus Torvalds was still at the University of Helsinki and struggled with finding POSIX documentation, Linux (the kernel) never worked as a complete general-purpose operating system without external utilities. In the beginning, those were MINIX based, but Linus then adopted the freely available GNU utilities. So no, Linux is not an operating system and you cannot run it as such without utilities. Now, those must not necessarily be GNU, but I think that the term GNU/Linux is still justified because GNU and Linux are strongly intertwined with each other from the point of the latter's birth until today and into the future.

    [–] Artyom@lemm.ee 25 points 6 months ago

    My god, the man made a copypasta from his own copypasta.

    [–] SmoothLiquidation@lemmy.world 18 points 6 months ago (3 children)

    Reading this makes me want to find a Linux distribution that does not use the gnu stuff at all.

    [–] folkrav@lemmy.ca 24 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

    busybox based distros like Alpine, or maybe Android, are probably the closest thing to non GNU-based Linux. Although I have no idea if they really have zero GNU stuff or just coreutils specifically.

    [–] ricdeh@lemmy.world 10 points 6 months ago

    And why would that be? GNU and the Free Software Movement have made an amazing positive contribution to the entire world, including your life even if you do not use GNU/Linux. I find this unwarranted hate on the amazing people that developed the GNU utilities and their equally as astounding work to be extremely disrespectful and quite frankly very petty.

    [–] bionicjoey@lemmy.ca 5 points 6 months ago

    Android?

    [–] femboy_bird@lemmy.blahaj.zone 22 points 6 months ago

    Microkernel gang

    [–] Album@lemmy.ca 21 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    He's right tho

    [–] NickwithaC@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    I thought that was the point of these memes...

    [–] FiniteBanjo 6 points 6 months ago

    Yes, the point is that the speaker is impassioned and confident and usually vibes with the statements of the original post-er, but they get zero sex because of how not interested in this niche the opposite sex is at parties.

    [–] Mango@lemmy.world 8 points 6 months ago (4 children)

    What's the Unix philosophy?

    [–] friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 44 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    catb is full of great info, including the answer to the question.

    http://www.catb.org/~esr/writings/taoup/html/ch01s06.html

    This is the Unix philosophy: Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface.

    Edit: replaced with the succinct version.

    [–] Mango@lemmy.world 4 points 6 months ago

    Ooohhh, I've been reading bits of catb.org since I was like 13!

    [–] FiniteBanjo 1 points 6 months ago

    Using one specific source for the definition of the Unix Philosophy is against the Unix Philosophy. /s

    [–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 8 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (2 children)

    Everything does 1 thing, programs work together

    I think Linux just doing the kernel should count as Unix philosophy though

    [–] gens@programming.dev 3 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    Originally it was about code. Split it into reusable functions, and such.

    SyStEMd fans don't understand, per usual.

    [–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    Where did I defend systemD?

    [–] gens@programming.dev 4 points 6 months ago

    Reply was to you, but it's still a public forum with a topic.

    [–] owsei@programming.dev 1 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    Is it not about chaining processes?

    IIRC the ideia was to use pipe (or other methods) to send one program's output to another's input

    But it very well could be about reusable functions, as code or as a .so file

    [–] gens@programming.dev 3 points 6 months ago

    Hmm. I can't find ehere i got that from, other then it being more general. https://cscie26.dce.harvard.edu/lectures/lect02/6_Extras/ch01s06.html

    Either way the whole point is to write programs/code that can interoperate and be composed. SysD programs comunicate over an "implementation is the specification" protocol, so they might as well be one blob instead of separate programs.

    [–] Mango@lemmy.world 1 points 6 months ago

    I see. I read the catb page and I think it's a good direction.

    [–] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    "Do one thing but do it good" and "everything is a file. Is there more?

    [–] itsnotits@lemmy.world 2 points 6 months ago

    but do it well*

    [–] woelkchen@lemmy.world 0 points 6 months ago

    Probably the opposite of what "GNU's Not Unix" does.

    [–] Montagge@lemmy.zip 7 points 6 months ago

    MEAT MAN!

    [–] gens@programming.dev 6 points 6 months ago (1 children)

    Systemd hate is about it consuming things, and doing things badly.

    [–] lemmyvore@feddit.nl 5 points 6 months ago (2 children)

    My unpopular opinion: all the arguments that apply to systemd also apply to X.

    [–] gens@programming.dev 7 points 6 months ago

    Yes, except X had reasons for becoming like it is. But now when computers compute and draw on the same computer, wayland is way better. If only those freedesktop people would finalize this after 3 years of looking at it.

    [–] craigers@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

    If that opinion was unpopular we wouldn't talk about Wayland literally everyday

    [–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago

    From the thumbnail I thought he was just literally picking her up. Oh well.

    [–] electro1@infosec.pub 2 points 3 months ago

    The look on her face is priceless.. 😂