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submitted 11 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world to c/technology@lemmy.world

ChatGPT use declines as users complain about ‘dumber’ answers, and the reason might be AI’s biggest threat for the future::AI for the smart guy?

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[-] ragnar_ok@discuss.tchncs.de 142 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

The free version of ChatGPT DEFINITELY is dumber than it was even a couple of months ago. Used to be able to get decent, useful code reviews out of it, now it barely knows how to write a nested loop anymore.

It’s storytelling capabilities fell off a cliff too, the drive towards safely sanitized unoffensive-at-all-times content it can output has rendered every story, choose-your-own-adventure or collaborative role playing game sterile, empty expressions of black and white stories with no nuance allowed where saintly goodness is the only choice possible

In my own experience, chatGPT has been massively nerfed for the use cases I used it for

[-] Pixlbabble@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago

I tried a naughtybot for some steamy chat for the first time yesterday. I ended up in fight with the bitch.

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[-] Kerfuffle@sh.itjust.works 19 points 11 months ago

65B LLaMA models can actually do a pretty good job of writing. Here's two examples with Guanaco 65B (bold part is my prompt):

tags: fairy tale, animals, dog, wolf, fox, death, humor, dark storyline, violence, loss

Animals in a forest setting investigate a series of gruesome murders that recently occured. Written in the style of classics like Animal Farm and Watership Down, the writing is vivid and very descriptive. The dialog is thoughtful and often quite witty. It's clear the author really understands animal behavior and has done their research well!

---

Chapter 1: An Unfortunate Discovery

A fox by species, a detective by trade, you'll only have reason to know my name if the worst has come to pass. It's nearly winter and a bitter wind drives stinging sleet into my face, but it's still not as chilling as the scene before me now...

I was summoned here by an urgent message from a panicked hedgehog. She told me she found her friend lying dead on his doorstep with his throat ripped out - black fur matted with blood. I rushed over immediately and saw for myself what had happened. He looked so peaceful despite being cut down in his prime - a young wolf just starting doing well for himself - taken too soon. His home nearby showed no signs of struggle or forced entry. Whoever did this must have caught him off guard somehow. I didn't hear any howling either. That would have been easy enough to miss though since he lived alone deep in these woods where few creatures tread. I made sure to secure the crime scene and look around carefully without disturbing anything more than necessary until other investigators arrived. They should be here soon. We can't afford to lose evidence in cases like this. Times are already hard enough as it is...

As I waited and pondered who might have committed such a horrible act, something felt wrong about all this. Surely a predator like me could smell another predator's scent? But there were none that stood out among the melange of odors lingering here. How strange...

Soon after, several others joined me including some friends of mine. A stoic bear named Growler, grumpy badger called Grumpus, and a kindly old raccoon who goes by "Doc" due to his extensive knowledge of medicinal plants and wildlife biology. Together we began our investigation proper by gathering clues and questioning nearby witnesses while trying to minimize contamination through contact with them (we took care to put up caution tape first). Unfortunately, they hadn't seen much useful apart from occasional glimpses of movement deeper in the undergrowth. Still, we decided to check those areas next along with searching the surrounding woodlands thoroughly for any additional victims. And find one we did, although sadly she suffered the same fate as poor George. Another young wolf lay beside a stream, body cold and stiffening. Someone snapped her neck cleanly like a twig. This couldn't be coincidence surely? Not two deaths in quick succession like this.


before me or what I must relay when I return home. My mind races with questions as I survey this brutal crime scene; who could do such a thing? Why was no one there to stop them? And how many more victims lie undiscovered further out in these woods? A lone paw print leads away from where a rabbit family once happily resided, now reduced to bloody scraps scattered among splintered twigs and torn fur. This isn't just some random predator attack, something far more sinister is at play here...

I turn back toward town, determined to find answers. As I trudge through the snow, each step feels heavier than the last. How will I break the news to those closest to them? What words can possibly bring comfort after so much senseless suffering? I shake my head, trying to focus on the task at hand. There are others depending on me right now, they need someone strong and steady to guide them through this darkness. I won't let them down.

The first person I see upon entering town is old man Badger, his white whiskers blown about by the gusting wind. He looks up at me expectantly, "Well Fox, did you find anything?" His voice quavers slightly, betraying his concern for the missing families.

"I'm afraid I have bad news," I say somberly, "there were signs of a struggle near the burrow entrance, but no survivors."

Badger sighs heavily, "Dear me, this is worse than we feared. We must alert the council immediately!"

We hurry over to the meeting hall, a large hollow tree that serves as our central gathering place. Inside, several other animals are already waiting anxiously for word of their loved ones. They look up hopefully as we enter, then quickly realize the grim tidings we bear. A collective groan fills the room, followed by muffled sobs and whispered prayers.

Mayor Bear calls for order, her deep voice cutting through the din. She motions for us to join her at the front of the room, "Please tell us everything you saw, Fox. Every detail may be important."

[-] Calimhero@lemmy.world 36 points 11 months ago

Writer here. Very sorry to contradict you, but this is absolute shit. It looks good on the surface, but that's all.

[-] spark947@lemm.ee 16 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

Yeah, while it's cool that a computer can make a story, I have yet to see one that you would think was written by a human and would want to read.

[-] bitcrafter@lemmy.sdf.org 9 points 11 months ago

I don't know, this story is very reminiscent of the kind of thing my elementary school age cousin writes, but with a greater mastery of vocabulary and grammar. It's not in any way great, bit it's charming in it's own way when held against that (low) standard.

[-] Kerfuffle@sh.itjust.works 15 points 11 months ago

Very sorry to contradict you, but this is absolute shit.

To be clear, I'm talking in relative terms. Would you argue that ChatGPT did a massively better job and didn't write "absolute shit"?

It looks good on the surface, but that’s all.

From some of the stuff I've seen published, that might just be enough for certain people. I could even be that "certain people" from time to time, sometimes just the right theme, setting and some time to fill is sufficient.

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[-] ribboo@lemm.ee 15 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It has not gotten worse for coding. GPT4 is incredibly much better, if anything. And it’s total bullshit that it can’t write a nested loop.

I use it daily for work, so I’d definitely know.

[-] ragnar_ok@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 11 months ago

Sorry I should have mentioned I’m talking about the free version of chatGPT

[-] ribboo@lemm.ee 15 points 11 months ago

I should honestly have understood that! Never mind then, glad we could clear that up

[-] Calimhero@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Don't know why you're downvoted. I use GPT4 to code and design infrastructure and it's very, very good. Around 500% productivity boost.

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[-] mememuseum@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

Do you know of any good alternatives for role playing? I used it a while back to flesh out some NPCs and location for a DnD game I was planning on running but if it's gotten noticeably worse I'd like to try something else.

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[-] Strangle@lemmy.world 80 points 11 months ago

Back in my day, we used to call ‘prompt engineering’ ‘asking a question’.

[-] unreachable@lemmy.my.id 43 points 11 months ago

back in my day, we call it "google fu"

[-] nottheengineer@feddit.de 38 points 11 months ago

And then we had to actively unlearn that google fu because google no longer works with keywords, but rather has an NLP pipeline that expects a question.

[-] LordXenu@lemmy.world 25 points 11 months ago

So that’s why I can’t find shit. I always just use keywords, asking a whole question seems almost wasteful.

[-] Sylver@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

Wow, no wonder most of the old search commands don’t even feel like they work…

[-] clearleaf@lemmy.world 26 points 11 months ago

The last straw in utterly ruining it was when they removed using quotes to get exact matches. That was the only way to cut through the garbage. Now the only use for google search is searching within specific websites that never bothered to make their own decent search function.

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[-] LordXenu@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Fucking right?!

It adds this weird abstract where the search keywords the question you ask but that requires you to ask the right question. Sometimes I just need the page that has the most mentions of a specific word or phrase.

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[-] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 16 points 11 months ago

They got to have a special termonology because what they do is oh so special. Some AI users act like they're Louise Banks from the movie Arrival cracking the code to an alien language or something. And I don't think it's far fetched to assume they're often from the same breed who had NFT monkeys as their twitter pfp about 18 months ago.

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[-] dulce_3t_decorum_3st@lemmy.world 65 points 11 months ago

Nonsense. Less people are using it because there are viable alternatives and the broader novelty has worn off.

I use it every day in my job and the quality of answers only drops off when prompts are poorly crafted.

By and large, the average user doesn’t understand the fundamentals of prompt engineering.

The suggestion that “answers are increasingly dumber” is embarrassing.

[-] Zeth0s@lemmy.world 60 points 11 months ago

Unfortunately I don't agree with you. Different things have changed over time:

  • For chatgpt 3.5 they moved to a "lighter" and faster (distilled) version, gpt-3.5-turbo. Distillation came with a performance price, particularly on advanced and less common cases.
  • newer chatgpt-4 versions have likely been "lighten" for performance reasons
  • context has been halved for chatgpt-4 on webui, meaning that the model forget more easily and can use half information to create text
  • heavy control has been implemented on jailbreaking and hallucinations, that results in models less prone to follow complex instructions (limiting prompt engineering) and that prefer simplified answers than providing wrong ones (overall decreasing the chance of getting high quality answers).

All these changes have made working with gpt less pleasant, and more difficult for very advanced and specialized case, particularly with gpt-4 which at the beginning was particularly good.

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[-] YeastForTheYeastGod@sh.itjust.works 24 points 11 months ago

I was skeptical at first but I've seen enough evidence now. There are definitely times when it's dumb as a brick, whether the filters just get in the way too much, or whether they've implemented other changes idk. I'd really love the unchained version.

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[-] Touching_Grass@lemmy.world 8 points 11 months ago

I use it daily too and haven't had any of the issues I see written about it

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[-] unhook2048@lemmy.world 40 points 11 months ago

It's getting worse based on the feedback unfortunately, the need for safety and lack of meaningful deliberation towards how AI companies should operate and what should and should not be done has led Sam and co to be indesicive towards doing anything. Alongside the "morality" of the thing being hyjacked has lead to other AI's performing better... lead by x employees of OpenAI, with actual bound morals and not inherently relying on user input to train future models, this will be the path forward, this will lead to safe and controlled integration.

I guess at the core of this, we are afraid of ourselves. We are afraid that the worste of humanity outpaces the better parts, that the inputs and training aren't altruistic but are more pointedly "bad" or "wrong", and thus leading to "harmful", whether through misinformation, lies, or fabrications.

I hope we find a way to do better. I'm still excited for the future of AI, I mean crap, I'm closer to having a family doctor that's a robot then I am to a real human doctor.

[-] asparagus9001@lemmy.world 17 points 11 months ago

I guess at the core of this, we are afraid of ourselves. We are afraid that the worste of humanity outpaces the better parts, that the inputs and training aren’t altruistic but are more pointedly “bad” or “wrong”, and thus leading to “harmful”, whether through misinformation, lies, or fabrications.

Is there any reason not to be afraid? I think you could say that Tay was essentially the same idea a few years back and it took like 48 hours loose on the internet for it to spout literal Nazi (1930s-40s German NSDAP) rhetoric. Besides that being a PR disaster - if "AI" is only getting stronger and more integrated into human life and society, that can be pretty problematic.

[-] fidodo@lemm.ee 35 points 11 months ago

AI cannibalism simply isn't a thing yet. It definitely will be and good models will need to spend a lot of time and money sourcing good training data, but the models are not up to date enough to be contaminated yet.

I'm very confident the degradation has come from them trying to scale up. Generative AI is the most expensive thing on the cloud you can provide, and not only are they trying to make it faster, they're trying to roll it out for way more consumption. Major optimizations will require an algorithmic breakthrough so in the meanwhile all they can really do is find which corners they can cut that are less bad.

[-] ShortFuse@lemmy.world 27 points 11 months ago

When reality catches up to marketing

[-] sndrtj@feddit.nl 23 points 11 months ago

So what are the fundamentals in prompt engineering?

[-] dulce_3t_decorum_3st@lemmy.world 31 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

It’s impossible for me to comprehensively summarise in a comment because everyone has different use cases.

Personally, every new ‘project’ of mine requires a new chat. I first teach chatgpt-4 who I am, what I do, and how I want gpt-4 to assist me. Then I ask it to generate a project profile and to analyse documents using plugins.

The key is to work step-by-step and develop a string of prompts. Once I’m happy gpt-4 understands the project, I ask it to draft an overview/outline using headings and subheadings.

Lastly, I work on each section individually, ‘filling in’ the actual content. Then I edit and ask it to review problematic sections.

Most people, as far as I can tell, seem to think it’s a single ask-and-answer process. It’s not. I often need to draft about 10 prompts – about 3000 words – in order to generate one 10 page document.

I think the most important fundamental is to use templates. Pro tip: use gpt-4 to teach you how to develop your prompt templates.

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[-] Open@lemmy.world 19 points 11 months ago

Article talks about the potential of AI cannibalism were it is now learning from data that it (or other AI) has generated.

Does ChatGPT use modern data I was under the impression that it's most modern dataset was a few years old

[-] yeather@lemmy.ca 15 points 11 months ago

ChatGPT does not use anymore data points, but newer AI models or if ChatGPT gets a new round of training will definitely be influenced by AI works that have arisen the past year.

[-] Kodama@lemmy.world 12 points 11 months ago

The real event that initiates the start toward Idiocracy.

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[-] TheFutureIsDelaware@sh.itjust.works 18 points 11 months ago

ChatGPT usage is a very poor metric. Anything interesting is happening via API. Even the chat completion endpoint still isn't "ChatGPT" on its own. None of these complaints about it being "dumber" apply to the API outputs. OpenAI don't care about nerfing chatGPT because it's not their real product.

[-] d4rknusw1ld@lemmy.world 18 points 11 months ago

As long as it continues to do my resumes for me that’s all I need lol.

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[-] Nobilmantis@feddit.it 14 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I feel like it is still too early to talk about "AI cannibalization" or "feedback loops" as that would mean that a big proportion of the training data is AI-generated content itself, against all the rest that could be scraped off the internet or the public domain, I don't think this is happening yet.

What people might experience instead, and perceive as dumbness, is that given that the datasets used to train AIs cannot really change that much in a short time (unless we wait for another hundred years so humans can produce actual human original content to train the AI again), and as the mathematical models used to build answers based on the datasets are pretty much the same, a person talking with ChatGPT will over time perceive more and more that the answers are built using a "pattern" or a "structure", aka the model derived from feeding the dataset into the AI training itself.

Just my pennies on this, let's also consider that is in human nature to be excited for something new that sounds cool, and then to get bored when you got accustomed to it and pushed it to its boundaries.

[-] DogMuffins@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 11 months ago

I think this article is just click bait for dead internet people.

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[-] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 9 points 11 months ago

Why is it relevant what Peter Yang - Roblox product lead and enthusiastic child labor exploiter - tweets about it? Let me guess he's a prompt engineer?

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this post was submitted on 15 Jul 2023
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