yogthos

Literally nobody is advocating any Austrian school libertarian crap. What's shocking here is that self proclaimed materialists reject the notion that commodities can be used as a store of value.

Did you even listen to the Hudson interview? At which point did Hudson say it came from Petrodollar?

Hudson explains the general mechanic there. He has other interviews where he makes the connection more explicit if you really need me to dig them up for you, let me know. You still haven't actually explained what part of the statement that countries only being able to buy oil in dollars creates constant demand for the currency thus making it a safe store of value you're contesting. Perhaps you could answer that.

The whole point of Bancor is to punish countries for running huge imbalances, so as to return the world to a more balanced trade.

The whole point of Bancor is to act as a neutral exchange medium rather than a store of value. The system isn't designed to punish countries for having trade imbalances, but rather to incentivize them to reduce persistent surpluses or deficits through a mechanism that automatically adjusts the value of their currency based on their trade balance. This encourages a more balanced global trade environment by making large, sustained imbalances less appealing, without singling out any specific nation for punishment.

No offense, I don’t think you understand how Bancor even works.

Oh, no offense taken. It's just delightful to be schooled on Keynes by someone who seemingly believes the entire point of Bancor was to put a leash on a country's surplus, as if trade balances are some kind of moral failing that demands punishment.

Perhaps a quick refresher is in order. The core idea behind Bancor wasn't to wag a finger at any specific nation's economic success or to punish them for running a surplus. It was to create a neutral, international reserve currency to facilitate global trade and stabilize exchange rates by disincentivizing both large, persistent surpluses and deficits.

The aim was balance, yes, but through an adjustment mechanism, not a punitive one directed at one side. The whole system was designed to promote adjustment on both sides of a trade imbalance, preventing either excessive hoarding of foreign exchange or unsustainable debt, by automatically influencing the value of a nation's Bancor holdings. So, in that context, how much surplus any one country runs is utterly irrelevant to the core mechanism, which is about systemic balance, not singling out offenders.

Brave isn't open source either as I recall.

Even just 5 years ago I would never have expected people on hexbear to use straw man arguments, instead of honestly engaging with what's being said, but here we are.

the example prompts in the article are pretty funny though

This could not have been more wrong.

Hudson has a different view on this https://michael-hudson.com/2025/06/hostage-to-the-petrodollar-how-oil-wealth-fuels-u-s-empire/

While Petrodollar certainly does what you describe, that in no way contradicts my point that the need for oil ensures constant global demand for dollars. Countries must convert their currency into dollars to buy oil.

The only way to de-dollarize is for the countries to not have to export their surplus goods to the US anymore, and this requires another player (like China) willing to run a trade deficit to import those surplus goods from the exporting countries. Otherwise there is nowhere else for those surplus goods to go, and they still have to sell to the US. This is why all the exporting countries are panicking and trying to make a deal with Trump right now.

That's not true because the obvious way to create demand for surplus goods is by developing the global majority nations, raising the standard of living, and thus creating more consumption demand. This is precisely what China has been doing with initiatives like BRI where they help countries build infrastructure, and develop economic growth.

Please explain how are we going to get a Bancor-like system with China running a $1 trillion trade surplus annually? Have you ever thought about that?

I have, and I don't see why that's a problem. The whole point of Bancor is that it's just a medium of exchange. How much surplus any one country runs is utterly irrelevant.

Both for countries outside, but also within BRICS because there isn't much trust between different members, such as China and India for example, and nobody wants the repeat of the dollar where a single nation gains disproportionate control over the system. Since commodities aren't inherently tied to a specific currency, that makes them a more neutral store of value.

I don't think it needs to be a return to gold. In practice it can be a basket of commodities. There's nothing unique about gold, but what matters is that physical commodities have inherent value derived from the labour it takes to create them. Countries that are commodity producers have something of tangible value to offer, and that's what underlies the strength and stability of their currency. In fact, petrodollar has been a big aspect of what gave dollar stability. Everybody needs to buy oil for their energy production, and that created a steady demand for dollars when it was the only currency you could by oil in.

I do agree that bilateral trade is the the most likely scenario in short to medium term, but I can definitely see something akin to Bancor being created by the BRICS and to give it legitimacy, it could be backed by a basket of commodities that BRICS countries produce.

It really is iconic

Military spending is inherently at odds with economic fundamentals because it diverts labour from productive purposes. People working on producing tanks, artillery shells, missiles, or drones could have been instead working on improving infrastructure, building housing, farming, and so on.

Bonds absolutely have not entered nothing ever happens territory. It's pretty obvious that US bonds cannot act as a store of value in the long term. The faith in the dollar outside the west is rapidly collapsing, meanwhile western aligned countries like Japan are are starting to see disastrous consequences. https://franknez.com/worlds-largest-pension-fund-now-loses-61bn-as-dollar-falls/

The idea is not to sell gold to settle, but to have a currency backed by a physical commodity. I very much agree with the analysis here https://youtu.be/SV-jpJqDX7c

I think the analysis there is solid though, it seems that central banks are indeed starting to hoard gold because trust in the dollar and US bonds is starting to collapse.