They steal oil from anti-imperialist nations which would be used to fund and support said nations and instead sell it to the US and Israel, the latter having praised them heavily in the past while giving them direct aid - the parallels to Israel are alarming and the fact that any leftist here supports them is disappointing, especially after the events of the last year and the continuing escalation of war in West Asia.

They are essentially a military base for the US in Syria, with the SDF being literally named by a US General. They have taken weapons from Yzidi and other ethnic minorities in the region claiming they would protect them and then let them be slaughtered. They have participated in rounding up ethnic minorities and imprisoning them.

They are fully a proxy of the US and do their bidding.

People have romanticized them because of their origin story but failed to keep up with their transformation from a legitimate revolutionary movement into a full puppet of imperialism. Supporting ethno-nationalism is not it, it isn't hard to see this for what it is, and their attempts at covering their ethno-nationalism with shallow "look at our token Assyrian, Yzidi, etc member" instantly vanishes if you speak to a Kurd who supports Kurdistan about their desire for a Kurdish state.

It is Israel 2.0.

Supporting Rojava is supporting the US grip in West Asia, including Israel, it is supporting the occupation of sovereign nations by US proxies, and is anti-communist. It seems like people have a liberal notion that because some Kurds are self proclaimed communists means they are actual, real communists. We have had hundreds of examples at this point to prove that people who call themselves communists or socialists aren't magically principled, correct, sincere, or worth supporting. Stop romanticizing these people and do some actual research. They follow the guidance of a man who rejected Marxism Leninism for his own brand of Bookchin-thought which has spun off into an obvious cult of personality around him, why are y'all still stanning this?

I could see "critical support" over a decade ago but at this point there is nothing to support and everything to criticize. The people of Syria including the Kurds would be more liberated under a sovereign and independent Syria that isn't occupied by the US via their proxies. We don't need imperial proxy ethnostates for national liberation.

links from a variety of sources - as always, do your own research and dig deep because this topic is heavily dominated by imperialist voices: https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/08/10/heres-the-current-us-plan-to-build-up-syrian-proxies-including-an-oilfield-guard-force/ https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2017/05/07/syrian-kurds-are-now-armed-with-sensitive-us-weaponry-and-the-pentagon-denies-supplying-it/ https://leftistcritic.wordpress.com/2017/05/24/until-imperialism-is-defeated-in-the-region-the-kurds-and-the-syrian-arab-republic/ https://dissidentvoice.org/2017/05/a-liberated-area-in-the-middle-east-western-imperialism-in-rojava/ https://www.tasnimnews.com/en/news/2021/08/29/2562389/protesters-condemn-us-arrest-of-300-syrian-tribesmen https://dissidentvoice.org/2017/05/the-illegal-entity-of-rojava-and-imperial-divide-and-rule-tactics/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-usa-exclusive-idUSKCN1AX1RI/ https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/w/sdf-commander-pro-us-statements-sound-alarm-amid-rumours-of-rift-in-kurdish-movement#.YgmgAXmQeJY.twitter https://www.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/dfo27v/repost_an_antiimperialist_orientation_toward/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-oil-usa/syria-says-us-oil-firm-signed-deal-with-kurdish-led-rebels-idUSKBN24Y0FD http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-11/18/c_139523204.htm https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/eight-killed-protests-against-kurdish-led-forces-northern-syrian-city-2021-06-01/ https://www.defenseone.com/policy/2021/02/coalition-plans-expand-giant-isis-prison-syria/172270/ https://english.almayadeen.net/news/politics/no-education-under-us-backed-sdf-rule https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2020/06/10/heres-what-the-centcom-commander-says-about-the-possibility-of-syria-afghanistan-withdrawals/ www.militarytimes.com/articles/ypg-turkey-socom-terrorism-rebrand https://www.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/114vcsx/comment/j929afg/?context=3

[–] HelltakerHomosexual@hexbear.net 6 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They steal oil from anti-imperialist nations which would be used to fund and support said nations and instead sell it to the US and Israel, the latter having praised them heavily in the past while giving them direct aid - the parallels to Israel are alarming and the fact that any leftist here supports them is disappointing, especially after the events of the last year and the continuing escalation of war in West Asia.

although i do agree that there are many alarming things like its cooperation with the US in oil exploitation, an important difference between Israel and kurdistan (at least for those who dont think them similar) is that kurds are actually indigenous to the area, while zionists are settler fascists. I think that if I conclude that rojava is a reactionary imperial link in the western empire's chain, it would be more akin to ukraine or estonia.

I myself am concerned due to my limited knowledge and rojava being constantly referenced positively by anarchists near me (im not an anarchist at all, but these anarchists are really good on indigenous rights), and they seem like a good side to support from the surface. The complication is its cooperation with empire and fight with another critical supported country of mine: syria. Although from recent information i'd say that Syria played no small roll in causing the kurds to revolt against them. Revoking citizenship to kurds is kind of asking them to fight against you in my mind.

They are essentially a military base for the US in Syria, with the SDF being literally named by a US General. They have taken weapons from Yzidi and other ethnic minorities in the region claiming they would protect them and then let them be slaughtered. They have participated in rounding up ethnic minorities and imprisoning them.

I have heard these critiques and they are my main concern. The link between the US and Rojava are not small and that gives me great pause.

People have romanticized them because of their origin story but failed to keep up with their transformation from a legitimate revolutionary movement into a full puppet of imperialism. Supporting ethno-nationalism is not it, it isn't hard to see this for what it is, and their attempts at covering their ethno-nationalism with shallow "look at our token Assyrian, Yzidi, etc member" instantly vanishes if you speak to a Kurd who supports Kurdistan about their desire for a Kurdish state.

reactionary tendencies within such a decentralized ethnic sepratist group is bound to occur. I do think at this point though that a kurdish state may be necessary for liberation, as the separation under colonialist lines are entirely products of the west. Kurdish protection and autonomy at the very least, but the repression faced by kurds in Iraq, Syria, and Turkey (i know little of the situation of the kurds in iran but from what i have its not much different than the others) suggests the need for some sort of separate state entity. I do support Syria, Iraq, and Kurdistan in their anti imperialist projects, but I cannot find a good reason to also deny the demand of liberation from oppression that the kurds have given.

Supporting Rojava is supporting the US grip in West Asia, including Israel, it is supporting the occupation of sovereign nations by US proxies, and is anti-communist. It seems like people have a liberal notion that because some Kurds are self proclaimed communists means they are actual, real communists. We have had hundreds of examples at this point to prove that people who call themselves communists or socialists aren't magically principled, correct, sincere, or worth supporting. Stop romanticizing these people and do some actual research. They follow the guidance of a man who rejected Marxism Leninism for his own brand of Bookchin-thought which has spun off into an obvious cult of personality around him, why are y'all still stanning this?

As a Marxist Leninist, I know of their strange ideological platform and personally do not think it viable. decentralized bookchin nonsense is not something im going to cheer for. Democratic Confederationism is very restricted to Rojava.

But this is national liberation, and that changes things. I do not necessitate a Marxist Leninist ideological alignment for every national liberation, and in fact see national liberation as more important first due to it being a larger contradiction than class and capital. Should we support the Somali government's invasion of ethiopia due to them being 'socialist'? No. Should we not support the liberation of palestine even though the powers at the head are in fact religious fighters and not marxist leninists? Definitely not! Pol Pot was a socialist backed by the 'true communists' in china, should we support him (despite his allegiance to US imperialism and ethnic cleansing of the vietanmese)? never.

Of course criticism of revisionism, reactionary tendencies, and other such things are important, sometimes they take a backseat.

Like, we like the EZLN, or the Zapitistas. They are not anarchist obviously (much to the ignorance and chagrin of the western left), but theyre not a socialist state. We should still support them should we not? They are a native movement are they not?

I could see "critical support" over a decade ago but at this point there is nothing to support and everything to criticize. The people of Syria including the Kurds would be more liberated under a sovereign and independent Syria that isn't occupied by the US via their proxies. We don't need imperial proxy ethnostates for national liberation.

of course i agree, however Syria needs to also learn from their cruel treatment of the Kurds that lead to this happening in the first place. If that can somehow be achieved, then I would fully agree with this.

Of course America is the great satan, and any alignment with it gives me immediate pause. Not every national liberation movement is a real one (hong kong, taiwan, texas).

thank you vey much for the sources, i will comb through them!

[–] Jabril@hexbear.net 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

an important difference between Israel and kurdistan (at least for those who dont think them similar) is that kurds are actually indigenous to the area, while zionists are settler fascists.

I agree generally with this but also am not familiar enough with the way the lands in what they claim are parts of or fully "Kurdistan" have been inhabited over the last centuries by the many many indigenous groups in the region to say that the lands they are claiming or currently occupying are "theirs" in the way that "Kurdistan" implies. I have seen many go as far as to call the current iteration of Kurdish power fascist and colonial in nature, and if they are co-opting the lands of other people that is not solely theirs, it can certainly be argued that they are participating in some form of settler-colonialism, especially since it is funded by the settler colonial powers and functionally allied with the other settler colonial power in the region, taking land of other people while reducing their power and in some cases eliminating them, and using the natural resources to enrich themselves and their struggle as an imperialist proxy.

I agree that the Syrian state has made mistakes in its handling of a lot of things but ultimately believe it is the state that the workers and peasants in Syria need to wield together in whatever way they decide together and most importantly- this will never be possible with a US military occupation at the behest of the Kurds. Maybe it will end up with an autonomous region like some ethnic groups in China or the Kurds in Iraq have, it is not for me to say, but it does feel odd to promote ethno-states in 2024. We have functional examples of how to have an ethnic minority live within an a multi ethnic state while having cultural autonomy, promotion, and protection. It would only be through the Kurds turning away from imperialism and finding a diplomatic solution with their neighbors that this could happen, and until then they could be comparable to perhaps the Hmong in Vietnam, or the many other eventual proxies with legitimate issues who are pushed into the dark side in their hopes of solving them.

Kurdistan in their anti imperialist project

can you elaborate on this? they are using the fight against other US/NATO backed proxies as a justification to be armed and control territory, which is a part of the imperialist project's projection of power in the region. they are stealing oil from nations and handing over to imperialists. they are funded by and take orders from imperialists. I think comparing two multi-ethnic nations currently engaged in proxy wars against the imperial core to a non existent ethno-state that is in many ways aiding the imperialists against them while labeling them all anti-imperialist needs to be reconsidered.

But this is national liberation, and that changes things.

I agree that it opens up a lot of contradictions that must be looked at as clearly as they can and within the greater context of contradictions and their relation to the primary contradictions of our geopolitical space, and in this case it has transformed from the Palestine example into the Pol Pot example to my eyes as a non expert on the topic who has done my best to research over the years.

Like, we like the EZLN, or the Zapitista

The Zapatistas united people from over 13 different language groups into a revolutionary movement that transformed their lives at large for the better and the only thing stopping them from continuing that is a neo-liberal state heavily influenced by the US. They are like the anti-Rojava. They don't follow one guy's ideas about another guy's ideas while rejecting marxism-leninism. They synthesize all the info they can find through their cultural, political and economic realities in a directly democratic way where everyone from like 15 years and up have direct control over their communities, workplaces, and the larger goals of the federation of autonomous regions.

My prediction is that as Israel and Ukraine continue to crumble and the nations that are against them gain momentum, continue to unify around BRICS, and divest from imperialist nations while pushing them out of the region, China will eventually be able to step in and bridge the relationship between the Kurds and the other players in the region which will see the Kurds have to cut off the US in exchange for ceasefires and lots of economic support. We've seen so much progress in the region in this regard, and it can only continue to move forward as the imperialist death machine falls apart under the weight of its own consequences. inshallah-script

[–] MohammedTheCommunistPalestinian@hexbear.net 2 points 1 month ago

Definitely Israel 2.0 even down to the point of being considered “socialist” when they’re not