445
Postal worker parent of trans kid refused to deliver hateful flyers. She's being punished.
(www.lgbtqnation.com)
this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2024
445 points (96.8% liked)
News
23300 readers
4314 users here now
Welcome to the News community!
Rules:
1. Be civil
Attack the argument, not the person. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Good faith argumentation only. This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban. Do not respond to rule-breaking content; report it and move on.
2. All posts should contain a source (url) that is as reliable and unbiased as possible and must only contain one link.
Obvious right or left wing sources will be removed at the mods discretion. We have an actively updated blocklist, which you can see here: https://lemmy.world/post/2246130 if you feel like any website is missing, contact the mods. Supporting links can be added in comments or posted seperately but not to the post body.
3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.
Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.
4. Post titles should be the same as the article used as source.
Posts which titles don’t match the source won’t be removed, but the autoMod will notify you, and if your title misrepresents the original article, the post will be deleted. If the site changed their headline, the bot might still contact you, just ignore it, we won’t delete your post.
5. Only recent news is allowed.
Posts must be news from the most recent 30 days.
6. All posts must be news articles.
No opinion pieces, Listicles, editorials or celebrity gossip is allowed. All posts will be judged on a case-by-case basis.
7. No duplicate posts.
If a source you used was already posted by someone else, the autoMod will leave a message. Please remove your post if the autoMod is correct. If the post that matches your post is very old, we refer you to rule 5.
8. Misinformation is prohibited.
Misinformation / propaganda is strictly prohibited. Any comment or post containing or linking to misinformation will be removed. If you feel that your post has been removed in error, credible sources must be provided.
9. No link shorteners.
The auto mod will contact you if a link shortener is detected, please delete your post if they are right.
10. Don't copy entire article in your post body
For copyright reasons, you are not allowed to copy an entire article into your post body. This is an instance wide rule, that is strictly enforced in this community.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Good points. I agree with the paradox of tolerance and your other points.
Thank you for taking the time to reply. This type of discussion is why in use social.media but it is rare to get past the partisan brigading.
Civil disobedience is an interesting point in this case. Personally, I probably would have acted as this Canadian woman did.
What I am struggling with is understanding what counts as a disinformation campaign. I read in your post that you'd answer this as a society and with research however, if you were put in charge of this research tomorrow, do you have a draft definition of a disinformation campaign?
I ask as I try to see the world in black and white and steer clear of the grey however, this is rarely possible.
Free speech being a good example. It's either a 1 or 0.
We learn what is true through observation and math. We establish things that we know to be true with scientific studies. When we see a campaign spreading information we know to be false, that would be a disinformation campaign.
Here is a comment where I cite sources:
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/post/16679003/10778009
Here is a source from that comment that has a comprehensive overview of gender affirming care:
Here is argument from that comment supported by that source:
We aren't going to be able to come up with a definition for all possible disinformation campaigns. We do not know everything. However such a definition is not needed to prevent specific disinformation campaigns. And it is possible to know things. Things we know to be true should be held up as the truth. We wouldn't want the mail service to spread a disinformation campaign advocating for putting exposed radioactive material in people's homes. We know radiation is harmful to carbon based life.
Shouting fire in a crowded movie theater when there is no fire is not protected speech. Which is a specific rule about a specific kind of disinformation in a specific circumstance. But we have free speech. So free speech is not a 1 or a 0. Free speech rests on the foundation of the truth. If we know the truth about some topic that is critical to life, we should not allow spreading falsehoods about that topic. Gender affirming care should not be an exception to this principle.
Thank you for this detailed reply.
I think we've found the crux of our 2x points of view:
Without a definition of a disinformation campaign it is difficult to set rules that can be enforced. Example: do religious leaflets count as disinformation as they aren't based on scientific fact? If not then why is there an exemption for that case and not others?
I preface this with: I am not in the field but am biased to the views of the British NHS. The scientific sources you've listed, though through, are contradicted by other scientific sources (note, I'm not talking about "these are my facts" but actual institutional research).
Source: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/treatment/
Puberty blockers and gender-affirming hormones
Puberty blockers (gonadotrophin-releasing hormone analogues) are not available to children and young people for gender incongruence or gender dysphoria because there is not enough evidence of safety and clinical effectiveness.
So in summary there are 2x challenges I see:
Reputable scientific sources do not agree on this issue.
Applying a purely scientific principle will break existing norms and allowances. Principles agrees for this area and applied to other areas will cause an impact.
I'm keen to get your views on this as this is where my own thought processes usually get stuck.
Sorry for long text replies but this is helping with forming a more concrete view for myself :)
We should be interested in stopping disinformation in general, but we should do it on a case by case basis. Any banning of a disinformation campaign should be based on a body of empirical evidence. Which we have in the case of gender affirming care. There are numerous studies that have determined that these treatments are safe and effective.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8496167/
The UK recently had a now debunked report, commonly referred to as the WPATH files. The WPATH files are not accepted by the general scientific community and the report has been retracted. Unfortunately this report was used to spearhead anti-trans policies in the UK. This is the kind of disinformation campaign we should not want in society.
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/fact-check-216-instances-of-factual
https://www.transgendermap.com/issues/academia/gender-critical/environmental-progress/wpath-files/
Reputable scientific sources do agree on this issue.
In the US, we have freedom of religion. Everyone is free to practice their religion in a way that does not harm others. We have separation of church and state. The state cannot be used to push any religion on anyone. The United States government cannot send religious leaflets to anyone. Individuals and groups can send whatever religious leaflets they want.
It is not the mail being sent that needs to be based on scientific fact. It is the restriction on the mail that needs to be based on scientific fact. There isn't any harm in religious groups spreading their religion via the mail. There is harm in a targeted disinformation campaign attempting to ban gender affirming care.
A thorough scientific analysis is what should be the basis of any restriction on speech that is considered and deliberated by our democratic institutions. A body of empirical evidence is what should be used to upend existing norms and allowances. In the absence of a body of empirical evidence we should not restrict any speech.