this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2024
294 points (91.1% liked)

politics

19237 readers
2106 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

And in “tell Us Something we Didn’t Already Know” news.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] PetteriSkaffari@lemmy.world -1 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Nuclear energy is the most expensive type of energy, you could have way more wind and solar energy (stored in batteries or hydrogen) for the same investment. And without waste that keeps radiating for the next millenia.

[–] Soggy@lemmy.world 9 points 2 months ago

Neither storage "solution" is currently adequate for fossil fuel replacement and may never be for high-density populations. Nuclear is less impactful than burning hydrocarbons or damming rivers and fearmongering about radioactive waste products isn't helpful because, again, every nuclear accident or leak to date has been less harmful than normal exhaust from coal-burning plants and riparian habitat destruction.

If we had kept investing in an actual energy solution we would have gen-IV reactors already and the waste concerns would be even lower.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Nuclear is expensive because we've made it expensive. The most expensive part is bureaucracy. Running nuclear plants is cheap. Even still, the price of nuclear around the world is competitive. If you scroll down to the regional studies, nuclear looks even better. In every place except the US that has nuclear, nuclear is the second cheapest, with large-scale PV the only one higher (which doesn't price in solutions to provide baseline power, which nuclear has built in). The US has (purposefully) made nuclear appear expensive because laws have been paid for by dirty oil companies.

Nuclear is also one of the safest and cleanest energy sources. If you include negative externalities into the cost (which is never done but should be) nuclear is amazing.

[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes, AND, Nuclear is also cheaper in cost of human lives per gigawatt hour!

EVEN SOLAR AND WIND KILL MORE PEOPLE PER GIGAWATT HOUR THAN NUCLEAR.

(Hydro admittedly kills less people per GWh than nuclear, though - but not every place has that option.)

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Hydro causes a whole host of other issues though. It requires changing the environment in a very direct way. There are methods to reduce the issues, like fish ladders and things like that, but it's an immediate shift of an area from a running river to essentially a lake with a waterfall.

[–] Draegur@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

And in order for hydro's effects to be most easy to curtail, you need very specific terrain topology - such as where I live, in the Springfield area of Massachusetts, there's a hydroelectric dam on the Connecticut River in South Hadley/Holyoke (the two sides of the river at that section):

The dam was built where there were natural falls. So the dam leveraged the fact that the change in water elevation was natural and already extant prior to the dam's existence. They've had a fish elevator system for longer than I've been alive, too. Rather than changing how the hydrological system worked in the area, the dam stabilized it upstream such that the water level up the Connecticut River from there is more consistent than it used to be before - whenever there's more water than usual, the dam can increase spill rate.

The city of chicopee, across the river from holyoke and just north of springfield, also has a hydroelectric dam, also built where there were natural falls. This region is pretty good for stuff like that, and our electrical supply is much hardier as a result!

[–] PetteriSkaffari@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Nah, even the wikipage shows double the price compared to solar or wind. Which isn't surprising when you look at the basic technology of each energy type. And they all have to deal with a lot of bureaucracy.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Stop lying. No it doesn't. Unless you can't read the graph, it's very similarly priced to the rest. Solar is significantly more expensive at low capacity but cheaper at high capacity. It's approximately equal to coal and wind, depending on capacity. Nuclear can be cheaper than even the cheapest offshore wind.

The graph showing nuclear getting more expensive at higher capacity does show something interesting though. I can't say what causes that, ~~but I assume larger plants have more bureaucracy to deal with, which artificially increases their cost.~~ (Edit: I even read it wrong I think. It shows as more are installed they got more expensive, which implies a temporal relation. More laws restricting nuclear make it more expensive, which is not surprising. Nuclear would be very cheap if it stayed at the same cost as the minimum was.) It may be something else. It's hard to say. Nuclear is basically right on the middle of the cost axis though.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Posting an extra comment to say nuclear waste is not an issue either. Here's two good videos on the topic that show through example how much it isn't an issue.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=4aUODXeAM-k&pp=ygUXa3lsZSBoaWxsIG51Y2xlYXIgd2FzdGU%3D

https://youtube.com/watch?v=lhHHbgIy9jU&pp=ygUXa3lsZSBoaWxsIG51Y2xlYXIgd2FzdGU%3D

[–] PetteriSkaffari@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Additional comment against nuclear: water cooling, which is a real problem in a warming climate. Rivers will dry up or flood. And near the coast with rising sea levels is also difficult, using salt water. Besides, there are plenty of sustainable alternatives with a cheaper price tag, so why bother?

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 points 2 months ago

Energy is energy. It doesn't matter what it comes from. It comes from an exchange of entropy. It all must create heat. Arguably solar only takes the heat that would be hitting the earth anyway, but it creates more electricity the more it absorbs, so having a lower albedo is better, which will be higher than what the ground would have been.

Also, yeah obviously some places aren't ideal for a nuclear plant. That's not an argument against it. That true for literally every energy source. You can't build a solar plant in the shade. You can't build a wind farm where there isn't wind. Etc.

Which ones are sustainable and cheaper? They cost similar amounts per twh, and most cause more deaths. Nuclear creates, by far, the least pollution, including wind, solar, and hydro. Wind and solar also require something to provide baseline power, which is probably batteries. That requires mining lithium, which is very limited, or using some other battery technology which also have issue.

Nuclear is baseline power, clean, sustainable, cheap, and safe. The waste is easy to deal with and only exists in small amounts, most of which will be neutral in a very short period. The only reason not to like it is because we've passed laws to make it expensive and take a long time to build, but that's artifical and promoted by dirty energy. The whole anti-nuke movement is paid for by dirty energy, which should tell you something.