this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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Anon tries programming in Java (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 day ago by LiamTheBox@lemmy.world to c/greentext@sh.itjust.works
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[–] KoalaUnknown@lemmy.world 53 points 1 day ago (7 children)

Am I weird for liking Java? I feel like it just makes so much more sense than other languages.

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 7 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Honestly I would consider that a bit weird. At the very least, old-fashioned. If you like Java, it makes me think you haven't tried a better more modern language to compare it with.

[–] Malfeasant@lemm.ee 1 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Which would you suggest? (And if you say python, I will attack you with a pointed stick)

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 1 points 7 hours ago

Definitely not Python. Rust is very nice though.

[–] KoalaUnknown@lemmy.world 1 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (1 children)

The first language I learned was Python and I hated it. I have not tried Rust yet but I have tried all the Cs.

Edit: added missing not

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 1 points 9 hours ago

(I assume you left out a "not" there)

You should definitely give Rust a shot. It is only conceptually similar to C++ but otherwise very different.

[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 12 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

I thought I like Java until I tried Kotlin. It's everything I liked about Java, but with everything wrong with it fixed.

[–] infinite_ass@leminal.space 1 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I used to be very into Java and Kotlin looks nice. What's your favorite IDE?

[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 2 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

I use IntelliJ Idea. The free Community Edition is all you need.

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 49 points 23 hours ago (4 children)

C# is nearly the same, but much, much better.

  • It doesn't (usually) come with the Java culture 8 layers of abstraction. This isn't in the Java language. This isn't in OO. Yet nearly every Java programmer makes things way more complicated than it needs to be.
  • It's a prettier language. Similar syntax with less bullshit.
  • It's open source
  • It's still multiplatform. Modern dotnet / C# works on anything.
  • Both Visual Studio and Visual Studio code are great IDEs that blow Eclipse out of the water
  • It's one of the most common business languages.
  • It's going to be supported forever.

If I could restrict the world of programming to two languages, it'd be C# and Rust. C# for most things and Rust for a lower level language.

[–] dragonfucker@lemmy.nz 38 points 20 hours ago (1 children)

[–] dukatos@lemm.ee 3 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

Kids will never understand this. The same is with JScript.

[–] spongebue@lemmy.world 6 points 18 hours ago

I only had one job that used C#, and it was the worst job I ever had. Even with the worst possible way to be introduced to the language, I still love it.

[–] alsimoneau@lemmy.ca 8 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

I'll take Python and Fortran, thank you very much

[–] Amir@lemmy.ml 4 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Python should be burning in hell

[–] alsimoneau@lemmy.ca 1 points 12 hours ago

Nah, that's Java and JavaScript.

[–] PlusMinus@lemmy.world 8 points 22 hours ago (3 children)

Nah, C# suffers from a lot of the same shit Java does. Needing everything to be a class is just no longer a good design choice (if it ever was). AOT support is still lacking. I don't get, why it does not have typdefs. I think the solution / project structure is unnecessary and I could probably think of more stuff I dislike about C#. But imho, it still beats Java.

Golang is my choice over C# any time. I strongly prefer how interfaces are handled and I actually like the error handling.

[–] fadingembers@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 points 5 hours ago

Is there anything I can read about how we're moving away from everything being a class?

[–] Serinus@lemmy.world 14 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Needing everything to be a class

In 2015 they added scripting. If you're making a real project, you should absolutely use classes. (It's not that hard. Don't do the Java shit.) But you can absolutely write one off scripts just fine.

AOT support is still lacking.

Publishing your app as Native AOT produces an app that's self-contained and that has been ahead-of-time (AOT) compiled to native code. Source.

[–] PlusMinus@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago

I think you misunderstood my post. I am quite proficient with C#. I just think other languages do it better.

AOT is not where it should be yet, because not all libraries have full stripping support.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 1 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (2 children)

I strongly prefer how interfaces are handled

It's better than Java, but they still chose to walk headfirst into the same trap that bites Java developers in the ass: associating interface implementations with the struct/class rather than the interface itself.

When you have two interfaces that each require you to implement a function with the same name but a different signature, you're in for a bad time featuring an abomination of wrapper types.

Edit: Clarity.

[–] Willem@kutsuya.dev 7 points 18 hours ago (1 children)

On that last note, can't you use the explicit interface implementation in C#?

e.g.

public class SampleClass : IControl, ISurface
{
    void IControl.Paint()
    {
        System.Console.WriteLine("IControl.Paint");
    }
    void ISurface.Paint()
    {
        System.Console.WriteLine("ISurface.Paint");
    }
}
[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

Edit: I misread your comment as "like in C#" and wrote this as an answer to the non-existent question of "can't you use explicit interfaces like in C#"

I haven't kept up with recent Java developments, but with Go, you're out of luck. Interface implementations are completely implicit. You don't even have an implements keyword.

Edit: For Java, a cursory search suggests that they haven't yet added explicit interfaces: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/19111090/does-java-support-explicit-interface-implementation-like-c

[–] Amir@lemmy.ml 2 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

He mentioned C#, which does let you explicitly choose to implement same-name functions of two interfaces with different code

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 3 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

For some reason, my brain inserted a "like" before "in C#", and answered the question of "can't you use explicit interfaces like in C#."

[–] TunaCowboy@lemmy.world 0 points 19 hours ago (1 children)

just one more oop bro I swear

Pure oopium. All oop 'design patterns' exist solely to overcome the inherent flaws of oop.

[–] pivot_root@lemmy.world 7 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

just one more oop bro I swear

Didn't understand my criticisms of Go and Java's interfaces, or do you just enjoy LARPing as a senior programmer while living in a small world where the term "interface" strictly means object-oriented programming and not the broader idea of being a specification describing how systems can interact with each other?

[–] sentient_loom@sh.itjust.works 26 points 1 day ago

I like how straight-forward the syntax is. And it also seems orderly to have everything be a class. There's a system to it.

I'm using C++ for a project now and I like it in a similar way, but there's more freedom (everything doesn't HAVE to be a class). So with C++ I'll never go back to Java (unless it's for a job).

[–] chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz 19 points 1 day ago (1 children)

No. Every language has its haters. There's a reason Java is so widely used. If you like it, keep at it.

[–] tempest@lemmy.ca 19 points 23 hours ago (3 children)

Yes and the reason is because millions of lines of production code were written and it isn't worth rewriting them.

Plenty of languages around now that don't have 30 years of baggage and the specter of Oracle hanging over it.

Now a days many businesses choose Go.

[–] AusatKeyboardPremi@lemmy.world 4 points 16 hours ago

Now a days many businesses choose Go.

Many companies may choose something other than Java, but Java is still the behemoth.

Such a decision is taken when the company is completely new or if it is a green field project.

Even in the case of the latter, companies just choose to stick with their existing tech (read: expertise and experience of their tech teams)..

[–] porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml 6 points 23 hours ago

I don't really like Go either, but it's better than Java, and it's pretty good for Big Software (tm). In the end, every language has some problems. Java just has all of them.

[–] dukatos@lemm.ee 0 points 20 hours ago

The only reason not to choose Go is legacy systems with SOAP. That shit will never die.

[–] svcg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

I am a certified Java hater, but you're allowed to like it. If simple and objected oriented is what you want, I can see the attraction, and it has a good and mature ecosystem.

[–] bitchkat@lemmy.world 4 points 22 hours ago

The ecosystem is java's biggest asset. C# is actually a pretty decent language to develop in but the ecosystem just pales. Zookeeper for example doesn't have an official client. But one guy ported the Java client but it hasn't been updated in years. Maybe it's recently because I moved on from that job.

[–] lurch@sh.itjust.works 5 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

No, Java has lots of merits. For example, once you know layout managers, you can have a resizable GUI app in no time. It's the exact opposite of arranging things pixel by pixel. You just define "I want a grid of these buttons south and a big text field in the center" and Java will do the rest. I whip up apps like this for the silliest things, like noting which dungeon has what rotating boss this week in a game, so it's more convinient than noting it in a text file.

[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 2 points 16 hours ago

And GUI is even easier and faster with Compose.