this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2024
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[–] iii@mander.xyz 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago) (3 children)

It's not just power that's needed (MW), also stored energy (MWh).

Germany consumes on average 1.4TWh of electricity a day (1). Imagine bridging even a short dunkelflaute of 2 days.

Worldwide lithium ion battery production is 4TWh a year (2).

It's also a funny sidenote that France, a country with a strong nuclear strategy, frequently buys power from Germany because it's so much cheaper.

Isn't that normal? The problems with renewables isn't that they generate cheap power, when they are generating. Today windmills even need to be equipped with remote shutdown, to prevent overproduction.

The problems arise when they aren't generating.

[–] Teppichbrand@feddit.org 0 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Another problem arises when you're generation 63.688 after today and still have to keep maintaining deadly waste from nations that don't exist anymore, because they produced "cheap" and "clean" energy for a couple of decades.
Come on, Jesus died like 2000 years ago, this stuff will haunt us for centuries. Arguing in favor of nuclear energy is just selfish and shortsighted.

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Your estimation goes way off because you still believe lithium ion to be the only viable solution. By now Sodium-Ion batteries are already installed even in EVs and can be produced without any critical resource like lithium.

And then of course there are all the other storage solution. Like I said, there even are storage solutions like concrete balls. Successfully tested in 2016, here an article from 2013.

By now it wouldn't be wise to stifle this enormous emerging market of various technologies by using expensive, problematic technology (not just because the biggest producer of fuel rods is Russia).

[–] iii@mander.xyz 1 points 48 seconds ago

I don't think lithium ion is the only storage technology. I was using it for scale.

The most cost effective storage is pumped storage. But even that wouldn't reach the scale necessary.

6 MWh pumped storage proof-of-concept won't l, either.

[–] barsoap@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

The watthours is what gas is for. Germany's pipeline network alone, that's not including actual gas storage sites, can store three months of total energy usage.

...or at least that's the original plan, devised some 20 years ago, Fraunhofer worked it all out back then. It might be the case that banks of sodium batteries or whatnot are cheaper, but yeah lithium is probably not going to be it. Lithium's strength is energy density, both per volume and by weight, and neither is of concern for grid storage.

Imagine bridging even a short dunkelflaute of 2 days.

That's physically impossible for a place the size of Germany, much less Europe.

[–] iii@mander.xyz 1 points 3 minutes ago

is what gas is for

Wouldn't it be better to go fossil free. Given, you know, climate change?

That's physically impossible for a place the size of Germany, much less Europe.

Unless we use a different technology, that is not renewables + storage?