this post was submitted on 16 Nov 2024
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[–] iii@mander.xyz 20 points 1 day ago (25 children)

Storage is a solvable problem

I'm not convinced it is. Storage technologies exist for sure, but the general public seems to grossly underestimate the scale of storage required to match grid demand and renewables only production.

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 15 points 1 day ago (20 children)

I think you underestimate how much storage power is currently being build and how many different technologies are available. In Germany alone there currently are 61 projects planed and in the approval phase boasting a combined 180 Gigawatts of potential power until 2030. Those of them that are meant to be build at old nuclear power plants (the grid connection is already available there) are expected to deliver 25% of the necessary storage capacity. In addition all electric vehicles that are assumed to be on the road until 2030 add another potential 100GW of power.

Of course these numbers are theoretical as not every EV will be connected to a bidirectional charger and surely some projects will fail or delay, however given the massive development in this sector and new, innovative tech (not just batteries but f.e. a concrete ball placed 800m below sea level, expected to store energy extremely well at 5.8ct / kilowatt) there's very much reason for optimism here.

It's also a funny sidenote that France, a country with a strong nuclear strategy, frequently buys power from Germany because it's so much cheaper.

[–] iii@mander.xyz 4 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago) (14 children)

It's not just power that's needed (MW), also stored energy (MWh).

Germany consumes on average 1.4TWh of electricity a day (1). Imagine bridging even a short dunkelflaute of 2 days.

Worldwide lithium ion battery production is 4TWh a year (2).

It's also a funny sidenote that France, a country with a strong nuclear strategy, frequently buys power from Germany because it's so much cheaper.

Isn't that normal? The problems with renewables isn't that they generate cheap power, when they are generating. Today windmills even need to be equipped with remote shutdown, to prevent overproduction.

The problems arise when they aren't generating.

[–] Natanox@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

Your estimation goes way off because you still believe lithium ion to be the only viable solution. By now Sodium-Ion batteries are already installed even in EVs and can be produced without any critical resource like lithium.

And then of course there are all the other storage solution. Like I said, there even are storage solutions like concrete balls. Successfully tested in 2016, here an article from 2013.

By now it wouldn't be wise to stifle this enormous emerging market of various technologies by using expensive, problematic technology (not just because the biggest producer of fuel rods is Russia).

[–] iii@mander.xyz 0 points 20 hours ago

I don't think lithium ion is the only storage technology. I was using it for scale.

The most cost effective storage is pumped storage. But even that wouldn't reach the scale necessary.

6 MWh pumped storage proof-of-concept won't l, either.

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