this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2024
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menby
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A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.
Detoxing masculinity since 1990!
You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.
Guidelines:
- Questions over blame
- Humility over pride
- Wisdom over dogma
- Actions over image
Rules (expansions on the guidelines):
- Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
- Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
- If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
- If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
- This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
- A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
- Examples:
- "This is reactionary. Here's why."
- "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
- "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
- You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
- Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
- If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
- If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
- If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
- No singular masculine ideal.
- This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
- Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
- Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
- This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
- No lifestyle content.
- Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
- Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
- At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
- If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.
Resources:
*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
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It's something i'm curious about as well. Like i said in our discussion last week, my solution to deal with my toxic masculinity would never work for men, because the transfem approach of "i want to live as a woman, never want to be seen as a man again and therefore can ditch any baggage people put up with to prove their manhood" is obviously not on the table for them. But i do know a lot of dudes who are at least headed in a good direction when it comes to de-patriarchizing masculinity, be they trans men who've been thrown into navigating masculinity as adults or cishet guys who've at some point understood that toxic masculinity blocks them from living a fulfilled, happy life and having the kind of romantic relationships and friendships they need.
And one thing all of them have in common is that they have nothing to prove. Patriarchal masculinity is always on display, there is always the need to broadcast your manlyness, to put on a show of domineering strength and a callous indifference towards hurting yourself and others. The self-described alpha male is a deeply insecure specimen and all the men i feel safe to be around aren't. They don't care if somebody sees them as wife guys or as soft soyboys, because they know on a very deep level that overperforming manhood and being ashamed of deviating from the script are BS. The term "fragile masculinity" exists for a reason. But ridding yourself of that is a tough one to pull off in practice, because there's a built-in paradox.
Unlike gender identity (in this case: being a man), which is internal and independent of the outside world, gender performance (in this case: acting in a masculine role) is always relational, always exists in a social and societal context. And in a patriarchal society, that means that there are always other men who police masculinity and shame you when you do not meet their standards. which is a core concept of chapter 3. To be a non-patriarchal man is a test of patience and resolve in this environment, and being stoic and calm under stress easily ties back into the patriarchal man's core problem to shut himself off emotionally.
If you want to find a way around that, if you do not want to end up in some still toxifying sigma role model, you need spaces to safely vent, show vulnerability and build meaningful connections with others. That's the only way to avoid the usual male trap of bottling up your anguish and letting it fester, in this case the anguish that results from being on the defense against patriarchal men all the time.
It also means that you will have to challenge the posturing and threat displays of patriarchal men. It just comes with the territory that you need to call these guys out when they tell you that ... kissing your gf makes you gay or w/e. To be a non-patriarchal man means joining in the fight against patriarchy, just opting out of the system doesn't work.