this post was submitted on 04 Dec 2024
82 points (100.0% liked)
menby
8010 readers
1 users here now
A space for masculine folks to talk about living under patriarchy.
Detoxing masculinity since 1990!
You don’t get points for feminism, feminism is expected.
Guidelines:
- Questions over blame
- Humility over pride
- Wisdom over dogma
- Actions over image
Rules (expansions on the guidelines):
- Mistakes should be learning experiences when possible.
- Do not attack comrades displaying vulnerability for what they acknowledge are mistakes.
- If you see good-faith behavior that's toxic, do your best to explain why it's toxic.
- If you don't have the energy to engage, report and move on.
- This includes past mistakes. If you've overcome extreme reactionary behavior, we'd love to know how.
- A widened range of acceptable discussion means a greater need for sensitivity and patience for your comrades.
- Examples:
- "This is reactionary. Here's why."
- "I know that {reality}, but I feel like {toxicity}"
- "I don't understand why this is reactionary, but it feels like it {spoilered details}"
- You are not entitled to the emotional labor of others.
- Constantly info-dumping and letting us sort through your psyche is not healthy for any of us.
- If you feel a criticism of you is unfair, do not lash out.
- If you can't engage self-critically, delete your post.
- If you don't know how to phrase why it's unfair, say so.
- No singular masculine ideal.
- This includes promoting gender-neutral traits like "courage" or "integrity" as "manly".
- Suggestions for an individual to replace a toxic ideal is fine.
- Don't reinforce the idea the fulfillment requires masculinity.
- This also includes tendency struggle-sessions.
- No lifestyle content.
- Post the picture of your new grill in !food (feminine people like grills too smh my head).
- Post the picture of the fish you caught in !sports (feminine people like fish too smdh my damn head).
- At best, stuff like this is off-topic. At worst, it's reinforcing genders norms..
- If you're not trying to be seen as masculine for your lifestyle content, it's irrelevant to this comm. If you are trying to be seen as masculine, let's have a discussion about why these things are seen as masculine.
Resources:
*The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love by Bell Hooks
founded 4 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I always had an intuitive sense of this. That my dad felt entitled to unquestioning obedience, and that this was because he felt he earned it by enduring his own time living in the shadow of his patriarch and his older sisters.
Between this and other passages in chapter 2, I’m beginning to think it may be in my emotional best interest to someday forgive my father for his enforcing of patriarchy onto me… Frustrating, because I have found some liberation in internally expressing anger about my treatment and pushing back on it.
A more general response to what I’ve read so far:
I was surprised how much criticism bell hooks has for the feminist movement of the time, and how some of that criticism still applies despite all the time since then. Feminism is a lot less “man-hating” than it has been in the past. While I have no standing to criticize fem comrades victimized by men for vilifying men in general, I hope that we can keep moving towards men can being considered potential allies in the fight against patriarchy rather than an immovable stumbling block that should all fuck off and die. Destroying the patriarchy has benefits for men as well as women; we have to include that in our case for feminism because the idea that men currently have a leg up they need to relinquish is a tough pill to swallow on its own.
My experience with domestic patriarchal domination in my childhood aligns with hooks’ description. The main emotions my father displayed were a) nothing or b) a full blown meltdown in which I was accused of purposely failing at school just to make my father angry, “thwarting” him in all things, and when anybody questioned this narrative, claiming that the family was actually ganging up on him. Some of this was undiagnosed adhd, but I have no doubt that my father couldn’t find something else to scapegoat me for; he needed a receptacle for his rage in his emotionally stunted state and I was the most defenseless emotional trash bin available.
My father was constricted in his emotional range to the point that he could never express that something bothered him until he overcame that barrier and dumped all his frustration (including his workplace stress) onto me, the only person who couldn’t defend themselves. The only way for me to get him to stop was to start crying, which thankfully wasn’t punished in my house. I was never hit with the classic “I’ll give you something to cry about” move.
However, I eventually decided that the way to combat this was to cover up my emotions and not let him see me cry, and cramming my emotions down where they couldn’t be accessed led to me developing depression later on. By high school, I felt emotionally deadened almost all the time, and my dominant emotional state was rage and shame directed inwards because I had too much empathy to ever direct it outwards at another person.
So far, it feels good to feel seen by a revolutionary feminist thinker that I have never met. I am optimistic that she will have some concrete suggestions for how I can restore the parts of me that patriarchy tried to eradicate, as well as how I can possibly help the men in my life do the same.
I have felt alienated and hurt as a man in feminist spaces before. Particularly in one I used to be in on Facebook. I was harassed and pushed out after lightly pushing back on black and white rhetoric one time. I think I still have the journal entry I wrote about that somewhere.
I think is part of the appeal of bell hooks is that she tells it how it is and doesn't leave any group blameless. We (men, women, feminists, etc.) have made mistakes and we need to see them and correct from them. This is something that we as a society are terrible at and its good to see it called out. Part of this is because vested interested need to sow division and amplify those voices that help them. This includes the most Man Hating elements of feminism because its a great enemy to fight. I think often about how for reactionaries and bigot they need the enemy who are their allies in division. Their true enemy is those of us who reject their definitions of enemies and want us all to get along
I do think there are a lot of people who don't want to make things better since they had to deal with it when they were younger. So they keep the cycles since they are on the top now forgetting how it feels to be on the bottom. They need to be have us feel this pain or else they suffered for no reason. Even though that is what happened.